How to respond: been asked what sex I was assigned at birth

[Needapadlockonmyfridge]

I recently signed up to have blood tests privately (vitamin levels etc).

On the health questionnaire, one of the questions asked what sex I was assigned at birth.

Scientific company should surely do better than this. Not sure it is worth flagging up with them. I suppose, at least they didn't ask gender, but still.... Disappointing.

A sorting hat, no?

The ideological stupidity on this thread from HCPs, no less, is breathtaking. And very scary.

It's impossible to come up with a good brief wording for this as long as we have such fundamental disagreement about the meaning of the crucial word in the question ie sex. Alas.

Maybe it should be asked like the prisoners dilemma. "If a gender critical person was asked to say what sex you were, what would they say?"

"What genitals were you born with" is not necessarily going to help anyone properly interpret blood test results if the person has a dsd. They need to know if the person is male or female.

By this reasoning, the OP shouldn’t even bother emailing the company then.

Change does happen. I see it every day. It takes sustained pressure and a willingness to compromise where necessary, even while you stick to your core principles.

I personally don’t understand why we can’t protect both women and trans people, though. I mean, Jesus, we don’t have to choose. But both sides of the culture war seems to make out that it’s one or the other.

There is a form of wording out there that ensures that the most number of people understand the question and are therefore given the correct clinical advice…but that also doesn’t exclude cis-males/females and is biologically correct.

There’ve been people on this thread that have advocated for letting people suffer worse health outcomes through misunderstanding. That’s nuts. We’re better than this.

I don’t ascribe to either ideology. There’s a third option and it would be really good if everyone can stop tearing each other down long enough to help each other find it. (If someone says ‘but they started it’ or ‘but they’re worse’ or ‘but you just don’t realise they’re trying to obliterate us’, I swear to god I will lose it…from the outside it is obvious that both sides feel like they are being put into an untenable and dangerous position…both are feeling attacked, marginalised and unsafe…if you feel this way then you know EXACTLY how the other side feels).

Why do we have to leave anyone behind?

Sex is not assigned at conception either. Males carry 2 types of sperm, one with an x chromosome and one with a y. If the females egg receives another x the resulting individual is xx, and forms ovaries, and is female; if the egg receives a y, the individual is xy, forms testes, and is male.

The chromosome carries a gene that encodes a sex-determining factor, this factor organizes the development of secondary sex characteristics. At no point is there any assignation, just a wee gene tadpole swimming valiantly into an egg and getting stuck in it, boom sex determined.

If you were the result of IVF then sex would be determined in a Petri dish.

Genetics refers to genes not chromosomes.

There is no ‘other’ sex. Everyone is male or female.

Sex is not assigned

No one is born wearing clothes and makeup.

When you ask about leaving people behind does that also include those who think god made the baby, and also put his son in a virgin (who later died and then came to life again). Or is it just gender fantasists that need to be pandered too?

I totally agree but the assignment is based on observation so I try to pretend they mean which box on the form did the midwife assign from using their eyes!

But it is offensive because it implies this assignment should dictate your interests and personality as you grow which is bs.

’genetically-assigned traits’ is a phrase that is used in genetic research

😂😂😂😂😂

Can we not use cis? Just because people are not trans they most certainly do no conform to sexist sex role gender stereotypes. Most here are gc. That means we find the term cis inaccurate and quite offensive as it relies on everyone having a gender identity and therefore womens oppression is their own fault.

You mean in the research done by Mendel on peas?

I’m aware that sex chromosomes determine your genetic sex (’genetic sex’ is the term used for which chromosomes you have). This is distinct to phenotypic sex, which is mostly your genitalia. Most of the time your genetic sex is XX or XY and you become either phenotypically female or male. However, neither of those is a given. There are several variations to XX and XY, chromosomally, and a whole range of development phenotypically.

So saying there is just male and female sexes isn’t medically correct - I mean, you should really ensure the HCP treating you is very aware if you are an ‘other’ as any of those variations can lead to very different clinical advice.

However, this is the exact problem. When you dig into the intricacies just around sex alone, and then try to come up with a form of words that everyone understands and leads to the best health outcomes, it’s way more complex than ‘are you male or female’? We’ve not even added self-identified gender into there yet.

So the question that relly needs answering is ‘what exactly is it that HCPs need to know to give the right clinical advice?’ Is it your genetic sex? Is it your phenotypic sex when you were born? Given most people’s phenotypic sex at birth matches their genetic sex, probs that one, especially as that’s the one that is observed and noted. But you’d still need an option that allows you to flag if you’re one of the few where that doesn’t apply. What does the differing ranges in blood test results for the majority of those born phenotypically male and female, for example, rely on? Because that is the information that the HCP needs to know.

This is where I lost the will to live when this all came up at my old workplace. I was not involved in determining the phrase, it was set long before, but when questioning it and trying to see if there was a different way of putting it that would protect the most people…it’s not as easy or clear cut as anyone might want to believe.

So, what question would you ask Caster Semenya, who was 'assigned' female, had female looking genitalia, considers herself female, and is actually genetically and morphologically male: literally the only difference from any other man is the absence of the penis and scrotum (meaning medical intervention is needed in order to father children)? And what question would you ask a woman (?) with CAIS?

I’m so sorry, I’m not up to date with the movement in this language - no offence was meant at all. I just thought cis meant that you identified as the same gender as your sex at birth, not that you ascribed to a specific gender role within that. What does gc stand for? And your last sentence…can you unpack that for me? How is gender identity and women’s oppression linked? Genuine questions!

So saying there is just male and female sexes isn’t medically correct

Yes it is. DSDs aren't "sexes". Everyone is either male or female, however ambiguous to the observer.

I just thought cis meant that you identified as the same gender as your sex at birth

It presupposes a belief in gender identity ideology. If it didn't, and I am a "cis woman" as an actual woman rather than a male identifying as a woman, for me, as very much a non believer a "trans woman" would be a woman who identifies as a man. But that isn't what it means.

Does it matter?

What? At birth??

This is just a bunch of twaddle.

Two start with the basics, there are just two sexes: males = small motile gametes, females = large immobile gametes. Some species have both sexes at the same time (sunflowers), others sequentially (clown fish), all mammels are just one sex and never change sex. In all cases there are just two sexes. There is no third gamete.

Sex in humans is controlled by genes, not the whole chromosome upon which they typically reside. Principally the SRY gene. The presence of SRY leads to the male developmental pathway. The absence leads to the female developmental pathway. It is this, not karyotype (xx, xy, xxx, xo, xxy etc) that controls sex (the development of small motile gametes - male, or the development of large immobile gametes - female). Mutations along these developmental pathways (DSD) do not make you an ‘other’ sex; they make you male or female with variations in sexual characteristics.

You should let your HCP know about any genetic conditions, including whether you are a male with Klinefelter’s syndrome or female with Turner’s syndrome , or if you are taking any drugs including cross sex hormones.

I think there should be a campaign that targets Trans people, reminding them to be honest with HCP in order to receive the appropriate care. Why not? They are a tiny minority in this country. In the entire world I believe. So it really makes more sense to target them, instead of subjecting all the rest of us to unclear and inaccurate, and often offensive wording. We all know whether we are male or female. Even the Trans people know, they just need to inform people where it is relevant.

What does identify with a gender mean?

what clinicians really need to ask is ‘what genitals were you born with?

That's got nothing to do with blood chemistry. As has been said in multiple ways, we are ALL either male or female. That's the only two available sexes in mammals.

Our sex is determined the moment an egg accepts a sperm.

It doesn't matter whether genes have translocated, the X and Y chromosomes are replicated in unusual combinations, or the foetus develops abnormal genitals. The sex is M or F as determined right at the very beginning.

It's also worth mentioning there is no such thing as a true hermaphrodite in humans. A vanishingly small number of people have a mixture of male & female cells for various reasons, but they are STILL one sex or the other; they're medical curiosities, but there's no need to change the language of 100% of people for an 0.000001% with freaky composition.

All you need to ask is What sex were you at birth? Obviously I'd prefer a simple "What is your sex" but am aware some respondents would choose to misinterpret that.

Point is, no fucker assigned it!

Because sex isn't assigned at birth. It's observed, often in the womb. Sex also doesn't change, the question seems to suggest it does.

Plenty of midwives are rankled by this terminology.

But thats true of everything. Do you ever ask anyone what eye colour they were assigned at birth, or blood group or hair colour? Have people been 'assigned' a cleft palate or Downs syndrome?

The word 'assigned' is totally unneccesary. The question is simply 'What sex are you'?