Poor Things (film)

[TinselAngel]

Has anybody here seem Poor Things yet?

I went to see it this afternoon and sat slightly horrified in a cinema full of chortling people, about Emma Stone's character being relentlessly exploited by men but this being portrayed as not being altogether a bad thing.

I actually loved it, and experienced it as a comment on men’s (desired) imprisonment of females.

What did you think it was saying about it?

All of the men were exploiting a woman who didn't actually have the capacity to consent, yet I felt we were supposed to see it a a story of sexual liberation.

I haven't seen it. But I did hear the discussion about it on Radio 4's Front Row arts programme about a week ago.

The two guests loved the film ('the main character is just exploring her sexuality' etc), but the presenter Sameera Ahmed said how deeply uneasy she felt, about exactly the point you make. Apparently the character does prostitution, to see what it's like?

Interestingly, this is the same Sameera Ahmed who recently hosted the chat with Naomi Klein at the Royal Festival Hall, and challenged her lazy stereotypes around gender ideology. Hooray for Sameera's voice of compassionate sanity.

Apparently the character does prostitution, to see what it's like?
She needs the money, but also thinks sleeping with other men will be interesting. The motivation isn't inconsistent with her character but whilst the consequences of her naivity are shown in other areas (eg giving money away), there's no negative consequences to being prostituted other than people judging her.

Oops, spelling should be Samira Ahmed. Apologies, Samira!

It looks an interesting concept but I think I will give it a miss seeing as I have spent a long time in paediatric neurological surgical wards seeing very poorly children with brain injuries.

I saw clips on Graham Norton and wondered if the actors were nervous about what questions they would get asked and if questions were vetted beforehand.

Emma is probably going to win lots of awards but it does feel uncomfortable. I know there was a big backlash against able bodied actors playing disabled ‘Oscar-winning’ roles a few years back but here we are again. For example, Eddie Redmayne playing a man playing a woman said he wouldn't do that as he is not a man who wants to be a woman. Which is taking it too far as after all they are acting.

There are some amazing disabled actors out there but I wonder how this film would be received if a woman with an acquired brain injury had played the role.

But mostly when I saw the trailer I thought how I am a bit jealous of the freedom and lack of angst everyone who was part of this film must have had because if they had had my life experience I doubt they could have been involved. I wish I was in the same club as them.

I loved it.
But thought the longish section about her working in a brothel could only have been written by a man.
I expect to enjoy Emma Stone, but also loved Mark ruffalo.

Whether this will make you feel any better, I don't know, but it's not really an acquired brain injury as such. She dies and has her brain removed and a baby's brain put in instead.

Edit: typo

Thank you. I got as much from the Graham Norton interview. But I saw enough with the stares, movements, experiments and craniotomy scars that were all too familiar to realise it’s not the one for me.

Crikey, how did Klein react to that?

So it's a film about a baby being sexually exploited? No. I have to say that really doesn't make me feel any better.

Basically yes. Which was also my issue.

I have been invited to go and see it but not sure if the sex scenes will be nice or uncomfortable.

I think I’ll leave it.

There’s a thread about Samira Ahmed & Naomi Klein - apparently Klein said she ‘didn’t understand’ this type of feminism. Probably can’t afford to understand it.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4904909-writer-naomi-klein-says-she-doesnt-understand-gender-critical-feminism

How can they be nice?!

Sorry if I’ve used the wrong word but by nice I meant not abusive or non consensual, for personal reasons I find scenes like that difficult to watch.

From the sound of it I’d have thought they’d be intrinsically non consensual because the baby’s brain just doesn't have capacity.

My take on the film is that it re-imagines the trope of an alien visiting Earth and continually asking "But why do you do that? Why do you believe that? Why can't you say that?" It is often uncomfortable and there was so much graphic sex that it felt exploitative of Bella - she is essentially a child in a woman's body trying to learn about the world and about herself. There were elements that worked well - such as her frank confusion of societal conventions, but it was too angled towards sexual constraints and could have said more about the more holistic constraints society places on women. It sometimes made me feel uncomfortable as it challenged my own conventionality - why can't we masturbate at the breakfast table if it feels good? And it did shine a light on the way many men exploit women for their own gratification. But ultimately my life is much more than just my sex life and those other (greater) elements were largely ignored.

So this is a film about a baby being prostituted?

Sorry if I've misunderstood, I've not had coffee yet.

@ArabellaScott I wouldn't have put it like that, no. The baby's brain rapidly develops and is more of a blank state. She has an appetite for knowledge and as she gains knowledge, through experience and later reading her intelligence accelerates.

This is the film of the Alistair Gray book ? If so, I think I read it years ago when I was very young about 20 and it was horrible and exploitative . I have never got his books and the two or three I read always had some dirty auld men sexually exploiting some younger or more vulnerable women. Despite all his arty guff, he just seemed sleazy to me. Maybe I'm not clever enough for them (actually heard that from someone once), so the film is a big no from me.

DD(19) went to see it yesterday, and walked out after half an hour. She found it really creepy and "paedo-ish" (her words).

Me and my husband saw it on Saturday and hated it. I didn’t really know anything about the film beyond a very sanitised trailer and lots of noise about how great it was, so didn’t know much about it before we watched it. Loads of spoilers ahead.

1. The central premise is absolutely disgusting. So much that we reflected about what was more repulsive in terms of fictional medical experiments- what happened to Bella in Poor Things or the people in Human Centipede. But this is played for laughs and without really any negative consequences.

2. Bella has a baby’s brain in a grown woman’s body. But because she has an adult body it’s okay for her to be repeatedly sexually exploited. It’s that horrible ‘born sexy yesterday’ trope.

3. Very male gaze, porny sex scenes. Again, featuring a woman who has the brain of a baby.

4. Bella is routinely referred to as intriguing, charming and enchanting, despite her antisocial behaviour (because she has the brain of a baby and doesn’t understand things like not spitting out your food if you don’t like it. Or masturbating at the dinner table). If Bella was an obese and ugly woman she would not be referred to like this- instead her behaviour would be seen as disgusting and distressing.

5. Once again, it’s a film where women’s liberation and enlightenment is found at the end of multiple dicks.

6. The film has one joke, which is that Bella always says what she thinks and usually that’s about sex.

7. it’s another film where you can’t have a female friendship without it becoming a lesbian relationship. Once again, very male gaze.

8. Prostitution is portrayed as somewhat of a chore but an ultimately rewarding experience. Bella likes sex and needs money so it’s great.

9. There are no negative consequences to Bella’s promiscuity to a ludicrous degree. She doesn’t become pregnant, get an STI, isn’t raped or physically assaulted by any of her Johns or jealous lovers. Which are all very real risks to women, but this is not explored at all.

10. Very pretentious, smug and shallow. It is nicely shot and produced but when you strip that away it’s just a wank fantasy played for laughs.

What also bothered me is the trailer for Poor Things was shown before a screening of The Boy & The Heron which we went to with our kids. I thought trailers were supposed to be appropriate for the audience so it seems weird to show it before a Studio Ghibli animation. The trailer made the film look like a whimsical fantasy adventure of a neurodivergent girl rather than a sexually explicit art film.

I’ve seen some hack reviewers referring to this as a feminist take on the Frankenstein myth- which really grinds my gears when you consider who the fuck wrote Frankenstein, and who her mother was.

If you want to watch a whimsical fantasy film about the female experience, just watch Barbie.

I actually liked it very much although I thought that there were too many sex scenes and they just got repetitive.
It showed the way that women are exploited in so many different ways. From Victoria’s abusive marriage in which suicide was her only way out, she was bound by society. In the same situation Bella walked out and took control as she wasn’t socially constrained.

Bella stayed with Wedderburn for a long time but only with Blessington for hours(?). This was showing her growth and empowerment.
She didn’t have the brain of a baby for all of it. It developed. Everyone starts with a baby brain and it develops as they learn more! She learnt about empathy from Harry. No-one had taught her that because she’s lived in her bubble.

Prostitution was a logical move for Bella at that point though. She had only ever had good sexual experiences so to get paid for it seemed sensible. I did think that the lesbian scene was lazy trope though.

Whether she is right to come back to Max is debatable though. I think it’s easy to judge him for wanting to marry her first but women were not the only people exploited. He was a poor man of colour talked into it by his wealthy mentor/employer. I think she made a conscious decision because he stepped back and didn’t expect her to still marry him. He also understood that every she had done was part of that journey. He also encouraged her to flourish when she came back.

The cinematography, costume and photography were amazing.

@HorribleNecktie thank you, absolutely agree with every word. It’s the sort of film that we are all supposed to think is clever and wonderful because of the “pedigree” of the people involved in it.