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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rachel Meade - it's a win!

692 replies

BreadInCaptivity · 09/01/2024 12:35

x.com/legalfeminist/status/1744697995822526961?s=46&t=88gZvdSnTk70X8b2ZUPZtA

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38
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 12/01/2024 12:56

Yes, I must remember to do a bit of gardening. So nice to see the results of all our planting and gardening for Rachel Meade - beautiful foliage and buds popping out all over! - but not quite fully bloomed yet.

nothingcomestonothing · 12/01/2024 13:51

Needmoresleep · 12/01/2024 12:24

What is extraordinary is that first Liz Truss and then Kemi have been very vocal about the importance of protecting women's rights, and their desire to see Stonewall influence reduced. Boris, after a couple of U turns confirmed his support, and Rishi has been clear about his belief in biological sex.

But people within the public sector don't seem to be listening. Some will be "Tories are evil bigots, so automatically wrong" but the extent to which clear Government signals are being ignored is extraordinary. This cannot be in the interest of either the current Government or the "Government in waiting".

There is an apparatus. There is a Chief Social Worker for Children and Families. I hope she has read Cass. She needs to start talking to the regulatory bodies and they need to clarify their guidance so it is in line with both the law and with Government policy.

The capture goes so deep though. It will take decades of hard work to reverse, and while plenty of proselytisers in positions of power will quietly reverse ferret, there will be a high cost to some who have staked their reality on this ideology.

The misrepresentations of reality have been very successfully embedded in public sector institutions. For instance, last week the all staff email bulletin at work (big NHS Trust) was advertising a session called something like 'building resilience in the LGBTQ+ community in the context of growing health inequalities and hate crime'. No evidence of these growing inequalities and crimes, just the assumption that they exist and people need training to overcome them.

How do you fight an ideology which starts from a position of victimhood and persecution, without being positioned as attacking a vulnerable group? Questioning the oppression is just seen as perpetuating it. Let alone what it must be like for some gender believers to really believe they are in constant danger of attack or even annihilation - I've seen posts online by young transpeople in the US saying things like 'I won't be taken to a camp, I'll kms first', they really believe they are being genocided. The scale of the capture is daunting, and beliefs are much harder to challenge than facts.

Sisterpita · 12/01/2024 14:02

I’ve done some gardening as I can’t see WCC and SWE both agreeing a settlement ahead of the hearing.

James Esses managed to settle with United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy (UKCP). As part of that they had to issue a formal statement and I suspect make some fundamental changes.

Rachel is clearly looking to achieve similar and I am not sure SWE in particular will agree.

Needmoresleep · 12/01/2024 14:26

Sisterpita · 12/01/2024 14:02

I’ve done some gardening as I can’t see WCC and SWE both agreeing a settlement ahead of the hearing.

James Esses managed to settle with United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy (UKCP). As part of that they had to issue a formal statement and I suspect make some fundamental changes.

Rachel is clearly looking to achieve similar and I am not sure SWE in particular will agree.

If they won't agree, the responsible Minister needs to start asking questions. Their stance is clearly counter to both Government policy and recommendations contained in the Cass review.

Vulnerable children are involved. Local authorities, as service providers, will be at risk of future legal action. Bonkers.

Sisterpita · 12/01/2024 14:49

@Needmoresleep I was clarifying why Rachel still needs gardening.

The 3 parties Rachel, WCC and SWE can agree a settlement before the remedy hearing. In legal costs this is the cheapest option. If they can’t agree then the remedy hearing will determine the outcome.

So there will be a remedy but no one can say what this will include.

Needmoresleep · 12/01/2024 15:09

I wasn't arguing with you.

Just exasperated that SWE cannot see the writing on the wall in the way Westminster Council, and the body James Esses was fighting, managed to. SWEs position has to be wrong and both Cass and recent legal decisions highlight this.

Who is advising them....

(Unfortunately I might know the answer.)

RethinkingLife · 12/01/2024 15:19

(Unfortunately I might know the answer.)

If you're correct, and if there's the usual NDA as to any amount, do we expect it to be described by said person as negligible and indicative of nothing and far from precedent-setting?

Any predictions for weasel-wording and non-apology of any statements?

EdithStourton · 12/01/2024 15:57

I've just been out and had a bit of a dig. Lovely weather for gardening - not raining!

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 12/01/2024 17:16

Froodwithatowel · 11/01/2024 13:45

The thing about 'practice in a GC way' is that it is continuing the intentional activist misunderstanding of the situation.

In terms of religion for example: you would expect that a Catholic member of staff would not enforce Catholic beliefs and views and doctrines on people in the course of their work, and that the colleague at the next desk would not in their turn be enforcing Muslim beliefs and views and doctrines on people. And that your experience of that service would be strongly coloured by the personal beliefs of whichever member of staff you saw. The expectation would be that no member of staff sees their job as an avenue for exercising their beliefs on others or trying to influence that person's life according to their faith, and that religious faith was entirely left out of practice with clients. Whatever it might be.

The thing with this is, that one side is gender ideology and the other 'belief' is just not being a believer in/advocate for gender ideology. You can't do GC beliefs and practice: you can only do an absence of active evangelism of gender ideology. The heresy is not being a believer and vigorous advocate of the faith and using your position and work place to further this.

The GC position is the neutral 'this stuff should be left out of the workplace and clients should not be exposed to anyone's personal beliefs'.

Heresy is just neutrality. That is how insane this is.

This is a star post!

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 12/01/2024 17:19

I was once in a church and overheard a heated committee discussion about how the next stage of its re-decoration should go:

'Yes - but is that carpet fitter a Catholic?'

I have often wondered about the differences between Catholic carpet-fitting and non-Catholic carpet-fitting.

A person's beliefs on gender (even if strongly held) are probably not the only important thing about how they do their jobs.

The needs of those looked after by social-workers are not usually anything to do with gender beliefs either.

Sisterpita · 12/01/2024 18:19

@LiesDoNotBecomeUs @Froodwithatowel
The GC position is the neutral 'this stuff should be left out of the workplace and clients should not be exposed to anyone's personal beliefs'.

If you think about it for 2 millennia + believing that there are two sexes was the default position. In both law and at work in policies and procedures were based on this default position. It wasn’t discussed or even a factor at work.

Employees worked within the EA2010 (and it’s predecessors) where PCs don’t have a hierarchy and competing needs of PC are balanced. Clients were not exposed to personal beliefs as it was about them.

It is less than a decade (2015 I think Allison Bailey stated) that the GI belief has not just gained traction but overturned the long standing practice of neutrality in the workplace. It is frightening but also shows what can be achieved by brave people like Maya, Allison, Rachel and others.

TheFireflies · 12/01/2024 18:32

The needs of those looked after by social-workers are not usually anything to do with gender beliefs either

Not usually, no. But sometimes they are, including children. And adhering rigidly to trans ideology in these instances is actually potentially more harmful than being gender critical. There is more professional curiosity in a GC approach than an automatically affirming one, yet which one gets punished…

Imnotavetbut · 12/01/2024 19:04

Very happy with this result! There's been some talk at work about it. When a worker has to complete re registration every year SWE requires you to confirm your 'gender identity'. One year you had the option of stating 'other' and completing a declaration in which you write your own text, so you could declare that you didn't have a one. It was a long winded way to resist the stupidity and exercise defiance against the machine. Last year that option wasn't there and you couldn't complete unless you declared your gender. Not completing isn't an option because without registration you can't practice. I look forward to seeing what happens this year as I think some will feel emboldened to challenge that more strongly now - it'd need some planning to make sure it's approached at the start of the registration window though, so time doesn't run out.

I've been out gardening for Rachel and I really hope SWE and BASW et al are rattled enough to start employing some critical thinking. We'll see!

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 12/01/2024 19:43

Gardening for Rachel and hoping that the others who were suspended (for not snitching 'the witch') are also given proper compensation in the end of this.

MarjorieDanvers · 12/01/2024 22:51

@RethinkingLife thank you - I can’t see SWE agreeing a reasonable settlement given their behaviour to date!

Signalbox · 13/01/2024 08:24

IcakethereforeIam · 13/01/2024 06:58

A bit more on this in the Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/social-workers-scared-to-speak-about-trans-issues-382370zcm

https://archive.ph/Fv9Pg

I expect in a few years, possibly not that long, we'll see the CoW being sued by careleavers and/or their families. But what Farrell is doing seems to be what they want to put into law in Scotland.

Frightening. So dangerous when people are too scared to raise safeguarding concerns. Why do we never learn? I bet this is being replicated in councils across the UK.

334bu · 13/01/2024 08:27

Thanks for link.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/01/2024 08:37

Underscores nicely what I said about social work and SWE!

Sisterpita · 13/01/2024 09:14

@IcakethereforeIam thank you for the link.

This is the next big scandal, many of us can se it but others seem blind. There will be a public enquiry and people like Helen Farrell will try to use weasel words or blame others not realising the damage they have done.

Abhannmor · 13/01/2024 18:54

Belated Congratulations 🎊! Rachel !

ADoggyDogWorld · 14/01/2024 22:04

Cripes that is a terrific article, thank you.

pronounsbundlebundle · 14/01/2024 22:49

Yes, good article. This bit in particular bears repeating:

If you say you value diversity in your company, that means diversity of views too.

Well, we all know what 'diversity' really means these days - it means the exact opposite. Narrow minded group think and prioritisation of one group over all others. Everyone forced to chant 2+2=5 or face what happened to Rachel Meade if they don't.

Froodwithatowel · 15/01/2024 08:24

Views is starting to be an inaccurate term in some ways.

Sexed reality is framed as offensive as for example marching around an office loudly expressing a view that homosexuality is a sin.

In fact it is nearer religious tolerance. You cannot demand that everyone in your office prays with you, genuflects at your altar, and denounce them as sinners and try to get rid of them when they explain that no, they have other beliefs that they choose to live by. It is not 'offensive' to not believe what you do and live by those beliefs.

The issue is the demand to enable someone else's personal belief system and create it around them/reflect it back to them. Yes, that person may well perceive that as you rejecting the 'true authentic them' and other such stuff, but the distortion is there.

You are entitled to not be bullied or harassed for your beliefs and lifestyle if it is appropriate and within the boundaries of the situation you are in. Non participation and other beliefs to yours are not bullying or harassment. Failing to tolerate those with other beliefs and their boundaries and rights not to participate or enable you - and seeking to convert them, punish and coerce them into participation or get rid of them from your environment - is harassment.