What do you think about Prince Andrew?

[theilltemperedclavecinist]

Sexual exploitation of women and girls used to be saucy (think Carry On movies, the Playboy Mansion or seaside postcards) and no-one wanted to think about the power imbalance apart from hairy feminists.

Now we know that Epstein was a sex trafficker, the media and the public think that every man who met him must have known about it and is therefore equally vile.

It's not as though misogyny has gone away though. Daily Mail articles about teen pregnancy for example attract highly rated comments about those slutty girls.

Why the discrepancy? Everyone seems to suffer the same kind of magical thinking - that every individual has perfect knowledge and perfect autonomy. The hard-of-thinking celebrity who gropes a pretty girl (or worse) and thinks its all good clean consensual fun? Definitely a p@#£do.The devious fourteen year-old, plotting her way to a cushy life on benefits? Definitely couldn't be a victim. Always think the worst of everyone.

Not sorry for Andrew, except insofar as he's a careless wielder of unconscious privilege who probably still doesn't get what he did wrong. But frustrated by the portrayal of misogyny as a parade of pantomime villains rather than the everyday menace that women all know about.

I try not to waste my time thinking about him.

But I do think The King should remove him from ever visibly being in the Royal Family or having any visible evidence of privilege from it. I don't want to see him at Sandringham at Christmas, nor as a Knight of the Garter, nor having any title. He should be Andrew Windsor, live in his own house not on a Royal estate or in a property of the Royal Estates and should have no HRH or Prince or Duke of York or any other title. He should not be allowed use of horses at the Windsor Royal Mews or be pictured riding out on them with the grooms. He should not attend a single event where the Royal Family are present- should not have been at the Coronation, Sandringham Church at Christmas etc.

If they wish to visit him at a house he buys in (say) rural Gloucestershire that's up to them, or have him to their private homes- Highgrove or wherever. We should never see him again in a public appearance related to the Royal Family.

He should have no status other than any Mr Andrew Windsor.

I will just add I think the truth of all of this Virginia Guiffre stuff is yet to be discovered and I don't fully believe her but I don't doubt he has, at best, been stupid, foolish, arrogant, entitled and behaved disgracefully for his own ends- at worse, I dread to think.

The rest of the RF are deep in the bubble themselves. Plus he is their son/brother and they love him. And they have had other family members like Mountbatten to cover up before.

It's also more than likely that every male member of the family has shagged a woman who was far too young for them at a party.

And Charles isn't exactly innocent here making friends with a paedophile who writes him a letter.

In what way is the RF supporting him? I was under the impression they were following the quietest path to ostracism. They prefer the least drama where possible. Given that he’ll fight tooth and nail, and no one wants to upset his daughters who seem quite sweet, there are limited possibilities.

It looks like grey rock, to me. Quietly repositioning everything to manoevre him outside.

He's a thick, entitled, creepy perv. All men like him deserve ostracism.

It is not within the King's power to do the government need to start the ball rolling in that one and the king will obviously be reluctant to go this route because if he dies this to Andrew people will be clamouring for him to do the same to his son who despite everything he actually seems to love

Product of our society and his upbringing. He is part of the very most privileged of the most privileged. Will have grown up having everything, handed to him and wanted for nothing. He’ll have been surrounded by yes men and women and facilitators all his life in a bubble of other extremely wealthy and powerful people all scratching each others backs. I can only imagine it’s a whole other world.

I don’t think he would have stopped to think how the girls got there because why would he when his whole life he’d have been able to just get what he wanted without much thought. His arrogance and entitlement will have made him think all the people that ever threw themselves at him were doing it because they wanted to.

Hes been caught out by a shift in society and has been the perfect one to make an example of. He’s completely in the wrong, but I think he’s been blinded by his upbringing

He's an arrogant sleaze who has used and abused his position. He comes over as also not being the brightest especially regarding who his friends were.

That said I'm not convinced he's a child molester..

I think he knew quite well. Remember the film footage of him looking left and right up the street at Epstein's door as teenage girls left.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at the Home Office if they ever receive an extradition request from the US for him. Does he still have Crown Immunity?

It’s interesting that the views on FWR are more nuanced on this than they are elsewhere on mumsnet. I agree with the general sentiment- yes, he’s awful, it’s not really surprising given his background, and it’s blindingly obvious he’s being used (successfully) as a scapegoat and a distraction.

As an aside, I think it’s pretty unpleasant the way that Republic has seized on this to report him to the police. I don’t care what happens to him, but they’re doing it purely out of opportunism. They don’t give a shit about the victims, and I find that very cynical and pretty contemptible.

It is within The King's power to remove him from attending any Royal events- Sandringham, Coronation, Royal lunch at Buckingham Palace etc. He just has to not invite him. He can stop him from living on Royal Estates, using the stables at Windsor etc. We just should not see this man ever in a position of privilege nor should he receive any privileges.

If the King or Anne and Edward wish to receive him at their private home out of public gaze that's up to them.

The titles may need an act of parliament.

It's not as though misogyny has gone away though. Daily Mail articles about teen pregnancy for example attract highly rated comments about those slutty girls.

The Daily Mail is a cesspit of misogyny.

Agree, @LoobyDop was just thinking the same.

As we are still wrestling with the scandals around sexual exploitation of children and the difficulty in getting them protected and correctly recognised by the authorities right now, it’s a bit much to expect Andrew to have recognised it 20+ years ago.

I feel the same lulu and cat and also looby.

PA needs to mothballed somewhere out of the public eye.

There are, as said, those who think the RF should go full Naboo on his arse. It seems reasonable although that in itself could be a problem. Because, also as said, if they do that, others will clamour for certain others to be treated similarly.

I don’t know what else is to come out into the light. I do think that the victims - past, present and likely future - are being forgotten about in the PA clamour though. That is tragic.

And as long as he is the focus, many will still unwittingly yet gleefully be knitting a thicker smokescreen for those who feel they are untouchable. Even more tragic.

I think the point of Epstein's behaviour was to protect some and incriminate others. As a result, he was getting money and favours from both sides.

My guy feeling is that andrew is too entitled to ask the right questions or understand that young women arent queuing up to spend time with him. I dont think it occurred to him that anyone was trafficked. But that doesnt stop him from being a part of the abuse.

He's never done anything worthwhile in his whole life.

I haven’t heard any suggestion that he didn’t play his proper part in the Falkland War.

He's a disgusting nonce who should be in prison.

I think he's an idiot who makes bad decisions, but I don't think he's a pedophile.

@AnnaMagnani

I think 🤔 that's extremely libellous unfair accusations Prince Charles like some other people were at that time unaware of the Paedophilia activities of Jimmy Saville,

How do you know that all male members of the Royal family at some party or other then?

You need to stick to the facts not just wild accusations as in throw enough muck crap and hopefully it will stick and be believable

I am not a huge fan of the British royal family either,

Just cause there have been one or two or few bad apples 🍎 in that family in the past,
it does not mean they are all cut from the same cloth,

You can get that kind of fxcked up dysfunctional behaviour and mindsets in other families too.

@AnnaMagnani

How do you know other males members of the British Royal family are like that too, getting up to mischief with young uns females then ?

I think his medical inability to sweat has probably been miraculously cured.

He has not been found guilty of anything and I don’t think he would be if he did stand trial. Not to say he isn’t an obnoxious entitled leech but that is not enough reason for the above. We might like to see entitled individuals who don’t recognise their privilege brought down a peg or ten but it is a dangerous path we go down if we start to dish out extrajudicial punishments to people just because we don’t like them. There are other arguments for reducing the monarchy if we talk of removing titles.

In terms of Sandringham - this is a private home belonging to the King.

Completely agree.

Epstein and Maxwell are a thoroughly sordid pair of procurers who ultimately got what they deserved.

I don't know why so many people are determined to keep on barking up this tree other than to find a whole lot of dirt on people they don't like - especially Trump et al - but it's just not there.

Far more young people are being harmed by the obsession with trans issues and yet these same handwringers are jumping on the bandwagon to say how wonderful this is, which makes them as bad as Epstein IMO.

Prince Andrew is a useless, dense waste of skin and I don't care what happens to him, the press are just having fun keeping him on tenterhooks.

I confess I also find it curious that those with so much to say (in various tomes lately) about their family and the establishment, that they seem surprisingly tight lipped about this family member.

I wonder why?