What do you think should happen to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA)?

[TERFisTHEnewTREND]

Personally, I can't believe this act was ever passed! I know 2004 was a different time, but still!

I believe that the only way of moving past the gender madness in law is to revoke the GRA. "Gender" is about as useful as someone's favorite type of music, so it has no place on a legal document.

As for what should happen to those who already have a GRA... well, I think some of them are owed an apology by those who told them that this piece of paper would change their sex (which it doesn't).

What do others think?

It’ll take time for people to realise that if they want certain things old set ups will need to change

Politically I think we’ll see quite a bit of movement over the next decade or so, not just in the U.K.

Have you ready the Japanese constitution? Me neither but I think Japanese judges probably understand it better than you or I.

That’s still not answering the question.

What specific changes do you think can be delivered in respect of the ECHR?

Can you point us to the section of the ECHR which says that penises have a human right to go wherever they please, including into all women's single sex spaces?

Thought not.

You’re absolutely free to believe that.

An international treaty by which the UK is bound has been interpreted to mean something different however.

Rage posting on mumsnet doesn’t change legal fact.

The Japanese government is only sovereign under the Japanese constitution and cannot pass any law that breaches the constitution. The requirement for castration before a GRC could be issued was deemed to be in breach of the constitution by the Japanese Supreme Court. The Japanese government could change the constitution but that would be very difficult.

So was it the Japanese constitution which prevented the Japanese government from saying no to this man, or international human rights law?

You don't seem very sure.

Just because it would be very difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

An international treaty has been abused by a group of men's rights activists in order to oppress women.

That was clearly not the intention when the UK signed up to that treaty.

Well the Tories have threatened to withdraw from it altogether.

This.

Make it very clear that a 'gender identity' recognition certificate carries as much weight as a sticker that says ' I was brave at the dentist today' and then hand them out freely. Have a new gender every week! Have several!

If it doesn’t change politicians can respond to demands by leaving.

It may well be other factors which push this more than gender ideology but I would not rule out how much post war set ups will strain

We’re seeing the start of the overall trend with a shift politically across the EU. This will ramp up and eventually politicians will work out a way to deliver what is demanded.

The idea we’re stuck with a system that voters really do not want is unrealistic

The government, policy makers and courts have created a rod for their own backs.

Its impossible to change sex, its impossible to force people to see a man as a woman. So why they thought they could magic both into law is bewildering.

That, in itself would just cause us to think less of the ruling class who thought they could perform such a trick, but they also expect the reason women and girls need and want separate spaces, opportunities and services to disappear.

So now they are left having to contend with the consequences to the laws they made.

They have a responsibility not to aid men abusing women and girls. Women have a right to equal opportunities.

If the GRA, EqA and human right legislation doesnt allow that, they are going to have to sort it. These laws arent the 10 commandments they were made by the same people who claim they are tied by the laws.

Concerns for the subordination and exclusion of women is 'rage posting' 😂

By difficult I mean that the amendment would require a two thirds majority in both houses of the Japanese parliament and a simple majority in a national referendum.

Exactly this. We have throughout history had a range of bad laws with harmful impacts. Section 28 for example.

They are got rid of.

This will be another one. There is no 'right' for men to use women.

Oh wow "rage posting" 😂

Classic

Not sure where you got that impression. I’ve never mentioned international human rights in respect of Japan once, and as far as I know Japan is not a party to any international human rights framework with rights of direct petition like the ECHR.

But it seems bizarre that the latest thing ‘gender criticals’ consider to be captured is the Japanese courts, leaning on their obviously more expert understanding of the Japanese constitution.

Aaand there it is - one group must have more rights than any other group and in order to do so rights will be removed from other groups. It is not about basic human rights for all it is about exceptional, additional rights for one group at the detriment and expense of others.

Read again what I said. I said repealing the GRA would be a breach of the ECHR. Which it would.

I said nothing about access to single sex spaces which is governed by the Equality Act 2010, not the GRA. I’m not aware of any ECHR jurisprudence that would prevent amending the Equality Act to limit access to single sex spaces. But the ECtHR is clear that the Convention confers a right to have legal recognition of acquired gender.

I agree that it would be difficult to get two thirds of legislators to agree that women aren't just emotional support animals and that we should have the right not to be exposed to strange penis in women only spaces without our consent.

But hopefully not impossible, now that the era of "no debate" appears to be drawing to a close.

I’m stating a basic legal fact.

Anyone saying that the GRA should be prepared to address their response to that fact.

But the ECtHR is clear that the Convention confers a right to have legal recognition of acquired gender.

Gender NOT sex which makes the changing of the SEX marker on a Birth Certificate incorrect.

You have missed the point.

When the UK ratified the ECHR there was nothing in there about gender recognition. There still isn't. All this nonsense about people having the right to be legally recognised as the opposite of what they actually are and damn the consequences for anyone else has been retrospectively interpreted into the treaty by powerful lobby groups convincing judges to read between the lines and squint very hard.

This was not the purpose of the treaty.

It is being misused, and it needs to stop. Otherwise right wing governments who want to set fire to the whole thing will get elected left, right and centre.

You’re obviously free to hold that opinion.

But the fact remains that repealing the GRA is not consistent with the ECHR so those advocating for repeal need to explain how they would achieve that repeal.