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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
7
SinnerBoy · 29/12/2023 12:16

inclusion group Pride Sports called the Policy Exchange report “pseudoscientific political propaganda”. Trans women, she said, “have participated with other women at grassroots level for years”, while “many grassroots sports and recreational activities are mixed, and often necessarily so. Without this, there are sometimes not the requisite numbers of participants to run activities at all.”

Well, they can call it pseudoscientific propaganda if they like and I can tell you that my pet millipede is called Astrobleme.

Transw have competed, it's true, we all know and the opposite of what is claimed is actually the case, as women have been elbowed out in place of blokes called Tracy. And events haven't been dropped because a transw wasn't there to save the fucking day.

Honestly, how can they look at themselves in a mirror, after they publish such utter bloody rubbish?

With levels of activity among British women still lower than before the pandemic, Washington warns against taking action that could, even unintentionally, limit activity further.

Hogwash, piffle and bunk! Keeping men out of women's sports can and will increase participation. Letting the spoilt princes in to cheat puts women and girls off, as we have seen from almost countless examples discussed here.

Fuck the Guardian and their dissembling bollocks.

(Sorry, reading that manure has made me slightly tetchy).

EasternStandard · 29/12/2023 12:19

Pattycakies · 29/12/2023 12:06

policy exchange are “right wing”

Michael Gove was the first chairman, Rishi Sunak worked there 2014/15 and it is listed as one of the most opaquely funded Conservative think tanks.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/who-funds-you/policy-exchange/

Do you agree with The Guardian on allowing males to compete in female sports?

ResisterRex · 29/12/2023 12:31

Pattycakies · 29/12/2023 12:06

policy exchange are “right wing”

Michael Gove was the first chairman, Rishi Sunak worked there 2014/15 and it is listed as one of the most opaquely funded Conservative think tanks.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/who-funds-you/policy-exchange/

For balance. Funding over at the Guardian

gendercriticalwoman.blog/2019/07/15/why-are-the-guardian-suddenly-so-woeful-on-womens-rights/

thehopefulgardener · 29/12/2023 12:37

To the people having a go at parkrun, please be clear on the stats.
There are 3 instances of a man holding a womens course record. This is at 2 parkruns, for 2 different age categories at one of these.
2 parkruns out of over 1000 in the UK.
In 2 age categories out of 7 or 8 available to women.
One person - the same one at all 3.

This is an EXTREMELY small example when over 100,000 people in the UK benefit from running parkruns every week, and not one from which you can extrapolate that 'parkrun hates and disrespects women'.

I totally support Seb Coe etc that trans should have their own categories in sport, and competition should be based on sex, but parkrun is NOT a competitive sport, and never has been.

Having them affiliate to UKA would go against their whole ethos.

Being open to everyone means exactly that.

Floisme · 29/12/2023 12:39

Unfortunately whenever I see the phrase 'right wing' deployed on here these days, I read it as, 'I don't like anyone talking about this but I can't think of a sensible argument'.

Winnading · 29/12/2023 12:42

thehopefulgardener · 29/12/2023 12:37

To the people having a go at parkrun, please be clear on the stats.
There are 3 instances of a man holding a womens course record. This is at 2 parkruns, for 2 different age categories at one of these.
2 parkruns out of over 1000 in the UK.
In 2 age categories out of 7 or 8 available to women.
One person - the same one at all 3.

This is an EXTREMELY small example when over 100,000 people in the UK benefit from running parkruns every week, and not one from which you can extrapolate that 'parkrun hates and disrespects women'.

I totally support Seb Coe etc that trans should have their own categories in sport, and competition should be based on sex, but parkrun is NOT a competitive sport, and never has been.

Having them affiliate to UKA would go against their whole ethos.

Being open to everyone means exactly that.

There are 3 reported known men holding a womens course record.
How many unknown for whatever reason (I will bet my house because other runners are too scared to say anything)

Those 3 known have affected many times more women. There would have been 3 women who gained the course record who definitely won't now, countless women put off going/joining parkrun, countless more too scared because reasons. All because some men thought they were the most important.

mcduffy · 29/12/2023 12:51

I've stopped doing parkrun because of their "inclusion" policy. It's not inclusive for female athletes. My aim was to come top in my age and sex catergory as I'm quite good and can't be doing with losing to a mediocre male

WickedSerious · 29/12/2023 12:53

thehopefulgardener · 29/12/2023 12:37

To the people having a go at parkrun, please be clear on the stats.
There are 3 instances of a man holding a womens course record. This is at 2 parkruns, for 2 different age categories at one of these.
2 parkruns out of over 1000 in the UK.
In 2 age categories out of 7 or 8 available to women.
One person - the same one at all 3.

This is an EXTREMELY small example when over 100,000 people in the UK benefit from running parkruns every week, and not one from which you can extrapolate that 'parkrun hates and disrespects women'.

I totally support Seb Coe etc that trans should have their own categories in sport, and competition should be based on sex, but parkrun is NOT a competitive sport, and never has been.

Having them affiliate to UKA would go against their whole ethos.

Being open to everyone means exactly that.

Three instances is three too many.

Theinnocenteyeballsinthesky · 29/12/2023 12:56

Floisme · 29/12/2023 12:39

Unfortunately whenever I see the phrase 'right wing' deployed on here these days, I read it as, 'I don't like anyone talking about this but I can't think of a sensible argument'.

This basically! I know policy exchange are “right wing”. However unlike the guardian, I don’t use that as a reason to dismiss what they say as what they’re saying is unequivocally true ie no men in women’s sports at any level.

tje guardian use it to mean “so please ignore everything they say in fact better still don’t read it”

JanesLittleGirl · 29/12/2023 12:57

thehopefulgardener · 29/12/2023 12:37

To the people having a go at parkrun, please be clear on the stats.
There are 3 instances of a man holding a womens course record. This is at 2 parkruns, for 2 different age categories at one of these.
2 parkruns out of over 1000 in the UK.
In 2 age categories out of 7 or 8 available to women.
One person - the same one at all 3.

This is an EXTREMELY small example when over 100,000 people in the UK benefit from running parkruns every week, and not one from which you can extrapolate that 'parkrun hates and disrespects women'.

I totally support Seb Coe etc that trans should have their own categories in sport, and competition should be based on sex, but parkrun is NOT a competitive sport, and never has been.

Having them affiliate to UKA would go against their whole ethos.

Being open to everyone means exactly that.

So 1 TW holding 3 women's records is acceptable to you. What number would be unacceptable? 10? 50? Please tell?

SerpentEndBench · 29/12/2023 12:58

Just hopping on to remind us all that one of the male born women's UK parkrun top three record holders is convicted-of-attempted-murder prisoner transwoman Lauren Jeska. Jeska was jailed in 2017 after repeatedly stabbing UK Athletics official Ralph Knibbs, 48, after he questioned her eligibility to compete as a woman.

SerotinaPickeler · 29/12/2023 13:17

thehopefulgardener · 29/12/2023 12:37

To the people having a go at parkrun, please be clear on the stats.
There are 3 instances of a man holding a womens course record. This is at 2 parkruns, for 2 different age categories at one of these.
2 parkruns out of over 1000 in the UK.
In 2 age categories out of 7 or 8 available to women.
One person - the same one at all 3.

This is an EXTREMELY small example when over 100,000 people in the UK benefit from running parkruns every week, and not one from which you can extrapolate that 'parkrun hates and disrespects women'.

I totally support Seb Coe etc that trans should have their own categories in sport, and competition should be based on sex, but parkrun is NOT a competitive sport, and never has been.

Having them affiliate to UKA would go against their whole ethos.

Being open to everyone means exactly that.

It's not about the stats. Or the extremely small sample. Or about being kind to a well meaning community organisation with 'an ethos'. Or the fact that park run is not competitive (actually, it is). It's about the organisers prioritising men over women, and some women choosing to opt out as a result. So women lose twice over.

That's what's wrong. So right to have a go.

duc748 · 29/12/2023 13:18

I don't have a problem with the Guardian describing a Conservative-aligned think-tank as 'right-wing'; it could be argued that's a slur (maybe it is to Guardian readers), but it's no different to the Telegraph describing a different grouping as 'left-wing'. But I do have a problem with the Guardian's woeful and dishonest position on sex and gender.

Brefugee · 29/12/2023 13:50

JanesLittleGirl · 29/12/2023 12:57

So 1 TW holding 3 women's records is acceptable to you. What number would be unacceptable? 10? 50? Please tell?

we're back to the n+1 number again, aren't we?

YYURYYUCICYYUR4ME · 29/12/2023 14:16

Doesn't this seem like women made some great strides forward recently, in all arenas, and are now being pushed back! We now have males, that are average, in their own sports against other males, wanting to feel good, so compete in sports, where they have a biological advantage, just so they can win! Smacks of spoilt child not getting their own way and now bullying others!

All about power me thinks!

334bu · 29/12/2023 14:22

At least 24 Us men won women's cycling races this year, depriving women of money and medals.
https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1738740924631400906

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1738740924631400906

Alicewinn · 29/12/2023 14:23

It's the same man on 3 different runs

BoreOfWhabylon · 29/12/2023 14:32

Mara Yamauchi was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 World At One today about Park Run. She was very good, very clear.
Starts about 25 mins in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001tqzd

Sisterpita · 29/12/2023 14:44

@thehopefulgardener if Park Run is not a competitive sport why are there men and women’s course records?

Giving individual times so individuals can track improvements etc. is fine. The minute you publish a list of times makes it competitive. Splitting times into Men’s and Women’s and age categories and publishing them makes it competitive.

RoyalCorgi · 29/12/2023 14:46

Just when I thought I couldn't despise the Guardian more...

Note that the story was written by Paul MacInnes. Their main sports writer, Sean Ingle, is much more alert to the problems of allowing men to compete in women's sport.

puncheur · 29/12/2023 14:51

@334bu I can’t read that but the US cycling scene is a law unto itself. The majority of races are unregulated by any governing body and don’t even dope test - they’re mostly organised by commercial organisations who make up their own rules and are not beholden to USA Cycling or the UCI. In the rest of the cycling world males have been banned from competing in the female category since the ban introduced by the UCI in July, following on from British Cycling’s ban in May.

nettie434 · 29/12/2023 14:55

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001tqzd

They also discussed this on The World At One (about 20 minutes or so in). I didn't know the name of the person interviewed but she was very clear. Park Run were invited to come on the programme but did not take up the invitation.

World at One - 29/12/2023 - BBC Sounds

Forty-five minutes of news, analysis and comment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001tqzd

Froodwithatowel · 29/12/2023 15:11

This is an EXTREMELY small example when over 100,000 people in the UK benefit from running parkruns every week, and not one from which you can extrapolate that 'parkrun hates and disrespects women'.

How many women do you feel is an appropriate number to sacrifice to male ego and self expression before women are permitted to extrapolate that this is fantastically sexist and disrespectful to their sex? Are you happy to explain to these women that their personal loss is something they should suck up for the greater good of men being happy in their self expression?

And how many men are being similarly sacrificed to women's egos?

In fact, if it's fine to upset people if it's an EXTREMELY small example, then let's upset the men with trans identities, because they're a much smaller sample than the women they are disadvantaging.

Floisme · 29/12/2023 15:29

I would agree that it's reasonable for the Guardian to report on a think tank's funding and political allegiances, providing they're equally scrupulous whether the think tank leans left or right. Maybe they already are and I've missed it? I do seem to have missed their coverage of this story so I stand corrected on that.

megletthesecond · 29/12/2023 15:43

I'm glad parkrun have been called out on this yet again.

They either have to scrap all times or make it fair for women by at least removing the course records stolen by men, especially the one done for attempted murder. I run but stopped volunteering months ago.

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