A very small one for the sisters

[viques]

Queuing for the loo in Liberty’s yesterday. The signage is on the single external door is marked men and women but in fact they are fully enclosed cubicles so unisex. About six women waiting in the queue along the corridor, along comes a man, assumes that we are standing there for the good of our health and moves to skip the queue because let’s face it , men don’t queue.

“ Excuse me, dear, it’s a single queue.”

He had the grace to mumble an apology and join the end of the queue, but it brightened our hearts to see a table being turned, even ever so slightly.

It's a while since I've been to Liberty's. They used to have lovely loos, and plenty of them. They must have reduced provision considerably if there was a queue.

But if making men queue gets them on board for the pushback, that's a silver lining.

We had this at a theatre I was at. Single sex loos replaced with a line of self contained cubicles. Many fewer loos, men having to queue with women. Quite apart from the wasted time, it all just felt rather icky. Also the (sometimes) camaraderie and chat in a women's loo queue was entirely absent.

I've also had recent experience of a bloke using the mixed sex loos at Liberty. I haven't been to Liberty for years and didn't realise they were mixed sex. The signs were together but high up over the open doorway as you came round a corner off the stairs. There was a female attendant attending to the disabled loo and a woman washing her hands in one of those long trough-like sinks. It was a very small space with just 3 cubicles. The toilets were occupied, there was no queue and I thought I'd reached 'the Ladies'. Until a man came out of one of them. There was now a queue of women behind me and I exchanged a kind of shocked glance with the woman next to me. I went to use the cubicle he'd just come out of. He had clearly just spent several minutes in there having a massive shit judging from the smell and state of the toilet bowl. I backed out and indicated to the next woman I was going to wait until the other cubicle was free. She shook her head and waited too. We both muttered in exasperation something along the lines of 'he shouldn't be here'.

Women need to use the loo more often and for longer for reasons associated with our sex. Periods, childbirth, menopause all have an effect. As does having to partially remove clothing and sit down to do our business.

But Liberty have to signal their progressiveness and women wait even longer to use a cubicle while a man literally shits all over their space.

Was the the loos just off the gloomy back staircase? I went there a few years back - yuk.

So many men wandered in, did a double take at the door sign then left. And yes, a man did march in, pass the queue of women and shoved his way into the next available cubicle.

Yes, it was just off some very dark stairs, (beautiful dark oak panelling) but I don't know if there is more than one set of stairs. I think it was the second floor. I saw afterwards there was a sign pointing to more loos upstairs on a higher floor. I don't know if they were mixed or single sex.
Even if I'd clocked the signs above the doorway I think I would have assumed that the space would be divided beyond it into separate men and women. And judging from the reaction of the woman next to me, so did she.

I bloody hate the ‘progressive’ move to mixed sex toilets. Piss all over the seats and floors.

Only and always disadvantages women without thought or care for women’s privacy, dignity and safety. Usually done for financially advantageous reasons to the firm whilst shouting how progressive they are.

Men, however, are not used to waiting. They’ll be more of the barging past kind than the apologetically going to the back of the queue kind. Maybe they’ll start to complain and then companies will go back to single sex provision.

Indeed. When the lack of available toilets and large queues start to really annoy the men, something will be done.

I doubt that will ever happen though. For the reasons I mentioned above men simply don't need to use the toilet as much as women. Queuing for the loo is an everyday inconvenience for women out and about in public spaces. I think an assumption it will become the same for men is misplaced. My male family members need the loo far less when we are out together. I don't think the occasional inconvenience to men will have them writing letters of complaint. Certainly not enough to make a difference.

Ugh.. that used to be a lovely place to browse.

Liberty used to be a quality experience, another one down the pan.

Agree.

And see what you did there.

Also used to be a long standing liberty fan and frequent buyer.

Have any of you who recently spent time in their not so lovely toilets complained? And particularly the person who came across the shit mess? Complaining about mess, you saw a man exit the cubicle, not clean for use, toilets need cleaning more frequently, not suitable for children to use etc. I reckon if Liberty have to spend more money cleaning, they might be less keen on their new policy.

No, I haven't complained. I went down with covid the following day and am still not up to speed. I don't suppose I'll get anything more than the usual brush off but at least they can't claim everyone is in favour of the mixed arrangements.

if Liberty have to spend more money cleaning, they might be less keen on their new policy

This is a key point to highlight when complaining. It’s a bit of a game of chicken. If we all refused to clear up strangers’ piss off the public toilet seats and asked for a cleaner every single time then these policies would not survive very long.

It won't change at Liberty unless the male customers complain. As Liberty has gone woke.
As I, a mere female and who could potentially spend hundreds on clothes and fabric, did not like those unisex loos and I complained to the managers. To be told that that were fine and it's tough. By a young male manager. Not even a hint of listening to why they were horrible.
Not going back any time soon.

There's an issue with unisex toilets - if men find they have to queue for the loo, they won't. They'll find a dark corner and piss there instead. I've seen it happen plenty of times at festivals.

THAT might get a reaction.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

This thread should be in FWR Classics.
There is a big loss to women of all ages when women’s toilets are replaced by unisex toilets even if they are self contained cubicles

At least it's men being inconvenienced for once! I went to a place today that had two toilet doors signposted "Whatever" and "Whatever with urinals". Women are not going to walk into a room that contains a random bloke with his knob out so how does this not count as sex discrimination? One set of toilets for women (who are far more likely to need them) and two for men.

You know what to do then. You leave the store without making a purchase and write to tell them this. If enough women didn't buy from Liberty, they would soon provide appropriate facilities.

Well perhaps we should. No man wants to be standing at the urinals with a woman in the room waiting for a free cubicle. I imagine it will make them feel self conscious and uncomfortable. So, perhaps a small taste of their own medicine is needed to bring on some empathy? I may well do this next time there's a long queue at the Ladies.

I was reflecting yesterday at the swimming pool how much I love the fact that they're single sex changing rooms. You have to go in completely the opposite direction at the main desk to enter either changing room.

A woman who arrived at the same time as me gave me such a lovely warm smile and then again when we were showering. Basically I felt a look of relief to be moving again, escaping people / kids / food, but also, no men.

Both pools local to me are single sex changing.

Also, the ones that aren't are the ones where I know that voyerism crimes have occurred. And I simply don't feel the same at those pools.

An issue I hadn't really considered a great deal was that in single sex enclosed cubicles a woman could faint and no one would know.

And I have experienced 2 friends fainting in loos and we've only known because we were with them and in the same toilet area.

Teen girls can be prone to dizziness with periods, I had friends who would be very unwell. this must be an issue that's not considered in schools

Liberty has toilets on several floors. There are single sex ones, I don't recall how well signposted they are but the below is from the website

(It's a reasonable bet that any store in London which wants the custom of women from some religious groups will have single sex toilets, but you may have to find a store plan online or ask the staff.)

Liberty loos

• Single sex male and female; adjacent to Men's shoes on LG
• Gender neutral ... on 2; adjacent to ladies' denim
• Single sex male and female x 2; adjacent to Dress Fabrics on LG 3
• Gender neutral ... on 4; adjacent to the central atrium

‘Unisex’ not gender anything. This is just silly to pretend we wee with our feelings.

I think the ones next to the men’s shoes are single occupancy cubicles next to each other.

I agree, it's not gender anything. But it's not 'unisex' either. It's mixed sex.

'Unisex' is a stupid made-up word that makes no sense. Uni comes from the Latin unus meaning one. There isn't 'one' sex.

If they are not separated by sex they ought to be called 'bisex' loos. I might start doing this. 😁