"Transphobic bullying is rife": 15 y/o trans boy's view of coming out at school

[ButterflyHatched]

A rare and refreshing example of the mainstream media actually publishing a young trans person's own words on the subject of their own existence and how the government's draft guidance is likely to affect the people it directly pertains to.

‘Transphobic bullying is rife’: a 15-year-old trans boy’s view of coming out at school | Transgender | The Guardian

Ah, so butterfly is quoting the ILGA report.

I always wonder why anyway gives such a paedophile adjacent organisation any credence.

Edit: actually maybe I don’t, given how so many adults seem very keen to sweep up children into gender idealogy.

Nobody wants you to be worse off than you are now or give up existing protections.

Men forcing themselves into women's spaces isn't an 'existing protection'. It's an act of aggression.

One which the government has finally recognised, and is taking steps to eliminate.

That's what we've had to do. We've actually had to get the government to stop men doing this.

And they are now acutely aware of how it is affecting children. That is where they have started.

...have I ever said I haven't been?

This is the 'Sex and Gender' discussion board on a forum that is as internationally renowned as a recruiting ground for anti-trans ideology as it is for advice on bringing up children.

I'm one of the targets of said ideology, directly affected by the efforts of anti-trans activists. I am also heavily involved in bringing up a pair of children who are about to reach the age where gender begins to become something they are consciously aware of. I hope both of them can grow up without having to have the rough ride I did, but it's possible that they have also inherited the same genetic mutation I have, and it is separately possible they might turn out to be trans - it isn't something that has come up in conversation and nor is it something I intend to bring up, but they will encounter the subject eventually at school.

Today's discussions on this site are frequently next year's headlines. The amount of misinformation and outright mythology regarding childhood transition in particular is enormous. I can actively help correct untruths and assumptions when they crop up and threaten to become additions to GC dogma while adding to the corpus of discussion on this site.

I would like anyone who needs it to have, as an absolute bare minimum, access to the resources I had as a child. That is an incredibly low bar, and yet it is already an impossibility for most. Even what is currently in place is actively under threat and has been the subject of a sustained attack for years.

There was a time when this country was, seemingly almost by accident, one of the world leaders for trans health and care - especially among children. I used to be genuinely proud of living here. Now, every day I see the headlines and I see how far we have fallen - and the effect it is having on young people I know.

Why the fuck would I sit by and not try to make things better?

Aw thanks for the misgendering, merry christmas to you too!

but they will encounter the subject eventually at school.

no they won't. Or if they do, it will just be as a footnote to an ideology that a few people believed in. Like flat earthers.

The government is already discrediting the ideology, by telling schools they cannot base any kind of 'identity' on gender stereotyping or unevidenced theories.

they know this is the basis for transgender ideology, and now, so does everyone else.

The amount of misinformation and outright mythology regarding childhood transition in particular is enormous.

I feel a lecture coming on.

I’ll be all ears to find out how children have the epiphany that they are a gender different to their sex that doesn’t involve stereotypes and a lot of adult intervention.

@ButterflyHatched Believing that biological sex is real and important isn't an ideology.

Believing in gender essence which may or may not match your genitalia and which gives special privileges to people who believe their gender essence doesn't match their genitalia IS an ideology.

You're not wrong about people wanting to remove certain rights from trans people. That's because the right to self ID into single sex spaces for members of the opposite sex should never have been granted in the first place. It rides roughshod over the rights of a much bigger group who were never consulted and never consented to this.

We just want trans people to have the same rights and the same obligations as everyone else. Not more rights and fewer obligations, as is currently the case.

Nobody wants you to be worse off than you are now or give up existing protections.

You say that, but you don't mean it. By insisting on using the ladies, you are imposing yourself and breaking down those protections, which women struggled long and hard to obtain.

The existing legislation in this country that protects trans people from discrimination already allows them to use the correct facilities.

Yes, the gents, or a unisex toilet. The law says that anywhere can have a women only policy and be protected in law, if they enforce it and keep transw out and ask you to use the unisex facilities, if you are worried about using the ones for your own sex.

The law says that anywhere can have a women only policy and be protected in law,

Absolutely. And hopefully the government will make that crystal clear.

The more guidance the government comes out with, the more transactivation gets exposed. All the shouting and screaming and accusations of hate does all the discrediting necessary.

If anything shows service providers that women need their own spaces, that does.

just like TRAs such as butterfly do on here.

Trans people should have the same rights as everyone:
. Not discriminated in housing, jobs, benefits
. Free Health care WHEN ILL (not elective body modification)
. Single sex spaces
. Marriage
. Freedom of speech

They shouldn't have the right to opposite sex spaces, forcing others in speech, cost the NHS in unnecessary drugs or operations on a healthy body. No one else has these rights.

You forget sport.

And safeguarding exceptions.

This thread began about trans pupils in school.

@ButterflyHatched what is your solution to changing for PE with children who wish to (or are told they should) “use facilities for however they feel comfortable” - given that in primary school those facilities will be two classrooms split by sex.

I do not feel confident you have a solution beyond let boys identify into wherever they like whilst adults approve this, disregarding the feeling of girls beginning (or already into) puberty.

As you consistently ignore this issue with the more pressing issue of how terrible life is for you I feel you are not on Team No Child Should Be Undressing Or Washing With The Opposite Sex.

so is all this so you get your way and can continue using women’s toilets, changing rooms willy nilly? (If you pardon the expression).

What are the 14 countries that outlaw being trans? And why can human rights watch only find 8? One of which is included on a no long hair for men law.

This is the thing about TRAs. The truth seems a very malleable concept. I guess when you believe reality should conform to your own ideas, you don’t feel the need to be at all accurate in your claims of victimhood.

I remain mystified by the 'compelled speech' angle.

A poster in this very thread stated earlier that they dislike the label 'gender critical' earlier. I currently use that term because it was requested by subscribers to that ideology who disliked one of the previous acryonyms (which was itself coined by subscribers to that ideology) and considered it to be a slur.

I think the current term 'Gender Critical' is useful as it correctly doesn't imply all subscribers are radical feminists, but I will happily update my terminology on request.

Many other organisations and groups ask others to update their terminology periodically with little fanfare or complaint.

Why is it only 'compelled speech' when trans people do it?

So sick of males refusing to acknowledge that male presence in a single sex space robs female people of their rights.

Single sex spaces are especially important in developing countries and refugee camps.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/women-refugees-face-assault-exploitation-and-sexual-harassment-journeying-through

Trans people tell others to use incorrect sex pronouns and then call it bullying or harassment if someone sticks to the traditional, instinctive, sex based ones.
They also unilaterally redefine words such as woman.

So glad that boys with special identities have not yet been permitted to attend girls schools. Single sex education is a due a massive comeback (all three of my local girls schools are hugely oversubscribed, thankfully my daughter managed to get one half way through the first term via a waiting list).

I refuse to teach my daughter to budge up and make room for males.

Thankfully Gen Alpha seem pretty terfy, probably due to all the males on podiums.

Datun · Today 12:29

+ + The law says that anywhere can have a women only policy and be protected in law, + +

Absolutely. And hopefully the government will make that crystal clear.

It absolutely needs to be, because all the previous fudgery has led to a situation where many people aren't sure and we've ended up with Stonewall law, even though Maya and Co have managed to deploy the big cannons and batter the wall down, in a war of attrition.

Yet still we have David Bloody Lloyd and head teachers ignoring it and damned well bragging that they are, that they know better.

I remain mystified by the 'compelled speech' angle.

Do you? Truly?

You insist that you are a woman and urge people to refer to you as such. That is compelled speech, especially if you cause trouble for people who can't use falsity and won't refer to you as such.

@StragglyTinsel The 14 countries are listed here - https://www.them.us/story/14-countries-illegal-to-be-transgender

Taken from an ILGA report apparently.

Perfect example.

You cannot make a man into a woman with plastic surgery and drugs. A man will always be a man.

Which is why these men who say they're trans need to be in the men's toilets.

It is ridiculous for a man to say he's a woman.

Dim problem.

So from 2019 and even extending the notion of ‘illegal’ to include not being illegal, they could only find 14 countries to make this claim about. Out of 195 countries.

No wonder human rights watch couldn’t find 14.

Why do TRAs always employ these hyperbolic tactics. And the stakes are always escalated way beyond reality too. A fine becomes state sanctioned torture and murder in these narratives.

It’s all about stoking fear.

Transactivists thoroughly enjoy deploying the compelled speech aspect.

You have TRAs deliberately courting and filming service providers when they correctly identify their sex.

There was an incident yesterday in an airport. Fortunately the Delta airline employee was having none of it and offered to escort the person in question from the building if he continued being an arse.

People are wising up to activists trying to make capital out of compelled speech.