Doctors in Ireland report HSE to HIQA over transgender care (tonights primetime)

[miri1985]

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2023/1214/1422073-leading-doctors-complain-hse-to-hiqa-over-transgender-care/

Thanks for posting this. It shows just how ideologically based those who reject exploratory therapy are.

here is one part of the article:

“Ní Féineadh says the exploratory Model of Care supported by Dr Moran and Prof O’Shea can be invasive and stigmatising.”

“"I attend a regular transgender support group, and I hear people describe the interviews that they have had, the four-hour assessment that they've had. I've heard them describe that in tears," said Ms Ní Féineadh.
For adults to be referred for gender confirmation surgery in Ireland through the NGS, up to three further interviews can take place, she said.”

"Those are very in-depth, and they talk in very specific and graphic detail about your sex life, what sex acts you enjoy, and how the surgery is going to impact those…That depth of conversation is unnecessary."

"What other medical procedure do you have multiple in-depth interviews before you proceed with it? Do you have an in-depth interview with a clinical psychologist before you get an appendectomy?" she asked, describing as a "pathologising of transgender healthcare."

Is this person so lacking in the ability to understand anatomy? Doctors are checking understanding of a surgical patients knowledge of the procedure they are being asked to approve. Surgery on genitals! Obviously it hasn’t occurred to this person that surgery on genitals will dramatically impact someone’s sex life. Even a double mastectomy will remove a female erogenous zone.

I cannot believe the paucity of thought in what this person said. It is almost devoid of thought.

I agree @Helleofabore it's extraordinary that this individual doesn't seem to understand that surgery on genitals might well impact on sexual function.

Of course they probably don't care about autistic teenage girls losing sexual function. After all, the middle aged men tend to carefully avoid mutilating THEIR sexual organs! Luckily thanks to Self ID they can have it all! Access to female spaces with a fully functional Penis! It's a win win for transwomen!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank fuck for Donal O'Shea. Ditto Paul Moran. Also very glad to see a piece of this length and breadth on the subject on RTÉ. It's very unusual for them to be even vaguely critical (as in thinking rather than condemnation) on these issues.

Yes I'm actually worried that it will be heavily edited by the morning!

The most obvious difference from an appendectomy is that to have one of those, you are physically unwell with a potentially life threatening illness.

Lobotomy would be much better analogy, as a physical operation for a mental health problem with little evidence that it helps and a horrendous capacity to cause harm.

Indeed. A better example might be, 'We know you're anorexic so we're going to sew your mouth shut to make you magically feel better.'

Everything that was in the article was on primetime which they can't go back and edit so hopefully they will hold their nerve and not edit the article

Yes, sex change surgery is akin to anorexics wanting gastric surgery. There would be significant MH intervention needed for that to be unpicked and explored.

We'll all need to tune in to Joe tomorrow!

For anyone in Ireland (or elsewhere with a VPN) who wants to watch the programme heres the RTE player link https://www.rte.ie/player/series/prime-time/SI0000000825?epguid=IH10000976-23-0093

Came to see if this had been posted. On the plus side, that was because I'd seen it posted on a UK doctors' site. Gradually, gradually, light is being shed.

Might Niamh Ní Féineadh be transgender? I'm guessing 'yes'.

Thanks for posting that article OP. I’m glad to see Moran and O’Shea being interviewed about their concerns but I’m flabbergasted that the HSE contends that it’s not adversely activist-influenced.

I'm not in Ireland and don't have a VPN but the RTE player linked above is working for me.

Wtf is Ní Féineadh talking about.

Throughout my relative's battle with cancer and many, many treatments endured, they (and sometimes we) attended countless interviews with consultants going through treatment options, limitations, risks etc.

When they realised it was all futile I had to attend a meeting with fifteen medical professionals.

Because some medical treatments (and the decision to withdraw them) are that serious!

I think that trans spokesperson seems to have the same level of ideological drive as those who produced that manifesto stating that trans people should be allowed to operate on each other if they wished.

The bar for treatment should not be ‘don’t discuss things that may cause a patient distress’! What the actual fuck!

This person should be nowhere near advocating for health standards for anyone. They want to lower the standard not improve it. This is where we get when we prioritise demands over needs. I fully believe that trans people should be listened to about their needs, however, this needs to be balanced with many other aspects including evidence and direct expertise with people who have both positive and negative findings in their vast experience.

A spokesperson such as this person is downright dangerous. Imagine stating that a surgeon should not just state the risks but should not also ensure the patient fully comprehends all the risks. That is deluded and so fucked up.

Because some medical treatments (and the decision to withdraw them) are that serious!

This stuff is presented with the classic "snake oil" characteristics, that have been repeated through the centuries. It's kind of old fashioned.

• Incredibly effective at curing all ailments
• Don't think about what it actually is
• Don't ask about downsides/side-effects

Now, that's always bad even if the real thing you're being given is harmless - it can stop people with a real serious condition finding a proper treatment.

But here they're applying the "snake oil" formula while providing something intrinsically very harmful.

I wonder if this is a form of prohibition making things worse, by redirecting the bad actors to more dangerous outlets. Dodgy elixirs (patent medicines) have been around for centuries, and gradually have been cracked down on. That Wikipedia page is worth a read. Any of it sound familiar?

Lobotomies, and this, are kind of a new era where we have moved on to surgical procedures and prescription drugs, and no centralised brand control, but with just the same marketing approach.

Which site? I am keen to look at comments!

Thanks a mil for posting link - thought it was really well done. fair play to the two doctors; it’s really clear they don’t have an agenda just a concern for patients getting the best outcome.

I suspect that there will have been a lot of politicians squirming as they watched that last night.
There were so many elements, that it probably deserved another programme.
The teenage girl who had ADHD and was a victim of sexual abuse, unquestioned affirmation by the psychogist.
The LGBTI group at her school, where it was all about the T. It just screams homophobia and social contagion.

TENI refusing to allow the 2 leading Irish experts speak at the EPATH conference.

What appears to be a attempt to intimidate the doctors into silence by the HSE with the complaint about a data breach. For some reason it reminded me of the Maurice McCabe saga.

The comparison between Niamh, who couldn't understand why someone should be questioned about their sex life as part of a comprehensive assessment and Richie, the detransitioner, who had his sex organs removed, despite having OCD.
The information that was sent to over 100 children about the Belgian clinic by the HSE. But it wasn't a recommendation, just letting these people know what's out there. But most people who receive such information would consider this as a recommendation by the HSE.

But, perhaps most of all, the silence.
Where were Stephen, Roderic, Mary, Paul and Norma last night?
Where were TENI and BeLongTo?

The one part that did slightly annoy me was the very start, when the reporter distanced themselves from the online culture wars.
Most of the discussions online are around single sex spaces and single sex sports,aswell as all of what was aired last night.
While obviously the safeguarding of children is the most important element, the other elements are also important and I felt that the attempt to distance himself from that was a little patronising.

But, beyond that, kudos to RTE for airing it.

Where were Stephen, Roderic, Mary, Paul and Norma last night?
Where were TENI and BeLongTo?

That's my problem with it. They're all glad hands behind the partition with each other, but once they're called to account for what they're doing, they're scarpering like stupid children. I don't know if I would have more respect for them if they were prepared to have the courage of what they probably imagine are their convictions, but I might have less contempt.

He thinks children with body dysmorphia don't need psychiatric assessment because irreversible surgery and lifelong drugs are akin to learning a language.

The American surgeon Johanna Olson Kennedy also moans about such assessments slowing down her production line. She said ' If I'm putting someone on insulin I don't have to send him to a psychiatrist first. '

Niamh is just some randomer. But it's scarey when medical professionals comes across as unhinged.

Thank you for the link which worked for me. Wonder if any Irish politicians are now reconsidering their positions.

I'm wondering about Irish politicians' now too, I just posted this over on Gender Critical in Ireland on Craicnet:
i wonder are some of our politicians beginning to think they legislated in haste after the marriage equality referendum, and are now repenting at leisure as the trans arguments are picked apart and the successful legal challenges in the UK - Forstater, Bailey et al.- are adding up.
TDs who originally opposed, or were on the fence about gay marriage, probably bought into trans demands so as not to appear reactionary, but now the 'right side of history' is turning out to be the wrong side of scientific fact and social justice. What can they do now, apart from bluster about most marginalized etc, or hide? Snookered, or checkmate, depending on your sport.

Eliza Mondegreen has an excellent, horrifying examination of the insane/evil state of so-called gender "medicine" at UnHerd, titled "The secret life of gender clinicians." The piece is discussed here. Suffice it to say, no-one working in that area can be trusted to behave ethically, or in the interests of their patients.