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Original poster

It's started in Irish dancing too. 14 year old trans child wins world qualifying event

163 replies

Greyheart1 · 11/12/2023 23:32

https://tennesseestar.com/news/parents-outraged-after-trans-identifying-boy-wins-girls-irish-dancing-competition-heads-to-worlds/admin/2023/12/10/

This means that the girl outside the qualifying spots in the U14 competition has missed out on her chance to dance at the world championships next year.
Devestating. It is an extremely expensive sport.

Parents Outraged After Trans-Identifying Boy Wins Girls' Irish Dancing Competition, Heads to Worlds - Tennessee Star

A teenage boy who identifies as a girl is heading to the Irish Dancing World Championships after placing first in the U14 2023 Southern Region Oireachtas competitions.

https://tennesseestar.com/news/parents-outraged-after-trans-identifying-boy-wins-girls-irish-dancing-competition-heads-to-worlds/admin/2023/12/10

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Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 09:39

@ElaineMBenes I don't think they'll need to change their whole style girls do reel, jig, hornpipe. The child will need a slip jig. The set dance will be arranged to highlight the best of the child's abilities & the music used is the same as the girls planxty Davy etc.
The power & stamina will be an advantage & look impressive in the girls comps. Toework however will be needed which as discussed above could be dangerous for males.
The dancers usually dance in twos & threes in front of the judges. It's up to the girls in the comp to decide if they want to share the stage with this competitor or make a stand. At the moment the power is in the hands of the parents, dancers & teachers.

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Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 09:42

ElaineMBenes · 13/12/2023 09:34

@Greyheart1 I saw that. The other U14 places highly at the worlds too so is clearly a better dancer.......

@ElaineMBenes now the school has champions in the U14 boy & girls 🤔 It seems the other U14 boy had been winning since very young going by the schools instagram with the other child always runner up.

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ElaineMBenes · 13/12/2023 09:43

@Greyheart1 Boys reels are very different to a girls reel....boys will include fast spins, stamps, clicks etc.
Once my kids get out of primary the boys and girls are taught very different steps and styles, particularly in light dances.

Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 09:48

@ElaineMBenes Thanks, I didn't know that, that would make sense with the different type of reel shoes the boys have.

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Webex · 13/12/2023 10:21

The power & stamina will be an advantage & look impressive in the girls comps. Toework however will be needed which as discussed above could be dangerous for males.

Is it a weight thing you're worried about? Looking at the pictures there look to be girls that weigh more than that lad so I would imagine he can do the pointe stuff as safely as the girls. There are obese dancers who manage.

Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 10:27

@Webex 😂 lamo at the way you phrased that!
No it's male foot structure is different to the female one so how safe are toes for men from a h&s & insurance point of view?

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SabrinaThwaite · 13/12/2023 10:38

Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 10:27

@Webex 😂 lamo at the way you phrased that!
No it's male foot structure is different to the female one so how safe are toes for men from a h&s & insurance point of view?

Yes! Yet another case of “women are not just scaled down men”. It has taken the football boot industry a long time to realise that women’s feet are a completely different shape to men’s feet. Women’s ankle joints also tend to have a wider range of motion than men’s.

Add in different pelvic structures and you can see that women move in an entirely different way to men.

SabrinaThwaite · 13/12/2023 10:46

Thanks @AlecTrevelyan006 I heard an article on R4 a while ago on this topic - one of the Lionesses was finally getting boots made to fit her feet rather than small men’s off-the-shelf boots.

I think Emma Hayes was also pretty vocal about the difference in women’s physiology when she was on Woman’s Hour back in the summer.

Tessisme · 13/12/2023 11:04

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/12/2023 09:10

Off-topic but my childhood friend was an Irish dancer (Irish Catholic) and there was minimal make-up, no wigs (!!) and hand-me-down costumes and
a swap-shop. I do remember her being very excited about a fake 70s tan because her pantyhose kept falling down though!

Have things changed?

Things have changed almost beyond recognition. DP's sisters were all champion Irish dancers, one of them won the Worlds 4 times. So a big thing in his family. In the 80's there was a lot of fake tan and nights spent in curlers. DP's dad used to draw Celtic designs on the dress fabric in chalk and his mum embroidered them. This was seen as quite elaborate. By the time his niece started dancing, the girls wore huge Lily Savage wigs, drag style make up and the dresses were professionally made and cost up to £2000. The cost of travelling is insane too.

Webex · 13/12/2023 11:09

No it's male foot structure is different to the female one

That's so interesting! I have to admit I have always assumed the reason that men don't do it in ballet is that generally people care less if young women damage themselves in the pursuit of beauty/ elegance. Off to do some reading!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/12/2023 11:26

Things have changed almost beyond recognition. DP's sisters were all champion Irish dancers, one of them won the Worlds 4 times. So a big thing in his family. In the 80's there was a lot of fake tan and nights spent in curlers. DP's dad used to draw Celtic designs on the dress fabric in chalk and his mum embroidered them. This was seen as quite elaborate. By the time his niece started dancing, the girls wore huge Lily Savage wigs, drag style make up and the dresses were professionally made and cost up to £2000. The cost of travelling is insane too.

That change is incredibly sad.

Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 11:28

Even if you compare your own feet to a mans there's a huge difference. My foot is an average size 5, it's narrow with a nice arch..
Hubbys is size 13 with really long chubby toes, his foot shape is flat & his feet are really wide. We joke his feet are like flippers! He'd end up in a&e if he ever attempted to go en pointe!
My 11 year old son has inherited hubby's feet!

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lesdeluges · 13/12/2023 11:56

I hope those affected succeed in challenging trans boys in girls Irish dance.

I also firmly believe that the wigs, dresses, make up etc. are a commercially lucrative tie in with the suppliers. All sewn up as it were.

The CLRG appears to be bent as a rake also. Rotten organisation that would insist on this ridiculously expensive garb, and who "fix" competitions.

I really don't know how any parent could allow their child to participate in such a disgraceful set up.

Irish here, did the Irish dancing when a kid (hundreds of years ago). Never liked the Irish Nationalistic Gaeilge filled ethos, and the self importance of the judges. I recognised this even though I was young. Just something about it all turned me right off.

Miracleglaze · 13/12/2023 13:01

Maybe it depended on where you lived @lesdeluges? I never got a nationalistic vibe off it, any more than I did about learning Irish at school or playing the tin whistle. I just saw it as our Irish culture?

I agree with pp that the change in Irish dancing with regard to dresses and wigs is very sad.

Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 13:19

The whole scandal surrounding the Clrg organisation has really tarnished what was a lovely cultural pastime.

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LondonLass91 · 13/12/2023 13:33

Imagine raising your son to be a cheat, as well as letting (enouraging) him to believe he has been born into the wrong body. The male entitlement in that family must be off the charts..!

lesdeluges · 13/12/2023 17:24

Miracleglaze · 13/12/2023 13:01

Maybe it depended on where you lived @lesdeluges? I never got a nationalistic vibe off it, any more than I did about learning Irish at school or playing the tin whistle. I just saw it as our Irish culture?

I agree with pp that the change in Irish dancing with regard to dresses and wigs is very sad.

I'm afraid that Drag like wigs, make up and false tan (on children), together with dresses that cost a bomb are hardly representative of Irish culture. That's what annoys me greatly today. As I said I have no doubt that the organisers are in cahoots and have mutually lucrative contracts for the exclusive supply of these outfits and embellishments.

I never had anything like that, a home embroidered dress and natural ringlets on my own hair for sure, but it was a simpler time. My dance lessons were in a freezing cold tiny Conradh na Gaeilge hall across the road from my national school. The thread is bringing back memories!

Original poster
Greyheart1 · 13/12/2023 19:21

Please read some of the comments in the petition from the parents of girls competing against the trans child. Judges have also commented in the petition. It gives an insight. The girls in the age group are afraid if they protest too much potential academic scholarships could be cancelled or it could hamper their future careers. This is sickening to the core. Spent the past 30 mins reading the comments in the petition. God help us women.

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ResisterRex · 14/12/2023 08:28

Just wanted to come back and say thank you for all the links and information on this thread Smile

Original poster
Greyheart1 · 14/12/2023 09:04

Like all other sports with men infilterating women's single sex competitions it's so important to raise awareness as best we can.. It's so bloody frustrating. What is wrong with these organisations like clrg who keep touting inclusuvity as an excuse to let a boy compete in a girls sport.

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ChateauMargaux · 14/12/2023 10:18

I can see any evidence that the wider, stronger feet of men are more at risk from injury than the smaller less dense bones of women affected by monthly fluctuations in relaxin and progesterone that inpact the ligaments and increase the risk of joint injury. If anything... they are less prone to injury based on comparisons in ballet.

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