Did anyone watch Doctor Who?

[ZeldaFighter]

So on an existential level, I'm confused. 11 Doctors and only 1 woman - it seemed like finally progress had been made. Now we're back to male people playing the role of the teenage daughter (who is explicitly transgender, so I suppose is really OK but now women can't even play the women).

Irl, I'm embarrassed because my husband immediately realised the actor was a transgender woman, whereas I didn't twig at all 😞

I finally sat to watch it. A 14 year old? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

He’s identifying as a 14 year old, ergo he is. New times, be kind, blah blah

I can't get upset about actors in their 20s, (or older!) playing younger teens, it's just so common. Grease, 90210, Buffy, there have to be hundred's of examples.

I regularly passed at age 15 before even touching hormone therapy. A few months on estrogen and I was already invisible. Genetics has a large part to play, but this scenario isn't implausible at all.

This male doesn’t pass as a 15 year old girl, and certainly doesn’t ‘pass’ in real life. I think if anyone believed that this actor ‘passes’ as a 15 year old girl, they are again proving they have fuck all knowledge of 15 year old girls.

I think anyone who also thinks this actor ‘passes’ has also misunderstood people’s reactions in real life. maybe they have taken people’s lack of overt rejection as people not understanding that a trans person is in front of them.

I wondered if Rose’s appearance might make some realise the limits of transition. I think Rose is extremely attractive, but to me doesn’t pass - jawline, hairline etc. It might make someone think, hang on if they don’t pass - transitioned young, very attractive etc, what hope is there for anyone else? But then often logical or rational thought isn’t really involved so probably not.

I’m sure Yasmin believes that Yasmin passes, though.

Yes and to be fair probably does a lot in real life - there’ve been multiple people on here who didn’t twig. I’m thinking more of a teen who wants to transition or their parent who might think, hang on, is this the best it will be? And maybe think a bit. But I think it’s probably wishful thinking!

Rather empress. From experience, we have seen many males fully believing that they ‘pass’. Yet never quite understanding that even when they post, their male socialisation is glaringly obvious and we cannot even see them. It is clear some people have very limited ability to understand human reaction, or who have to hold fast to misconceptions.

They didn’t twig while meeting Yasmin in real life? Or didn’t twig watching Yasmin on Doctor Who?

There is a huge difference.

I didn't realise Rose was a transwoman, husband noticed immediately!

Did you not notice the jawline, the forehead, the body shape?!

Well indeed especially when the 'girl' is a bloody great lump of an obvious man! So it's preaching 'Don't believe the evidence of your own eyes!'

How?!

The brow, and jaw bones are noticeable. But I think it will also depend on the carefully curated hair positioning and where your focus is. If rose was not an important character to you, personally, I can imagine maybe not picking it up during the show.

I didn’t know until I read this. I just thought the actor looked older than 15

Rose doesn't need to pass though. Remember - we are watching an adult male actor playing a 15 year old boy who wants to be a 15 year old girl. The audience is meant to know Rose is trans (not a biological girl).

You are correct there.

Is Ross then being treated as a girl, except for the grandmother character?

Because if so, that immediate acceptance as being something that they are not is a major issue.

To be honest, I didn't look properly as I was still playing on my phone shamed I saw curls, skirt and heard Rose so just accepted. I didn't actually understand why the kids on the street called her "Jason" so husband paused on a shot of Rose's face (and laughed at me). I was like "oh yeah, I see now!" From brow, jawline, etc but I generally try to avoid gendering someone until I'm sure as I don't want to upset masculine-looking women.

It's much easier to pass on tv/film/in professional photos as every thing (make up, wardrobe, lighting, positioning of other people) will be used to make it as convincing as possible. Another example being the transwoman presenter on Eurovision a few years ago - many of the promo shots of the presenting team had the transwoman sitting down to disguise height, but once on screen standing next to the female presenters it was blatantly obvious as he towered over them.

Yasmin may have passed relatively convincingly in DW and other shows, but the photos I have seen of Yasmin in real life (ie not magazine photoshoots) show that the reality is far more obvious.

In my opinion it's not relevant what the character looks like (and I personally am not comfortable discussing it, to any further extent than I would discuss any other character's appearance, because people can't help what they look like).

That episode was a clunky, hectoring, lecturing lump of Right Side of History caricatured cartoonish Goodies vs Baddies because that's what it was. Could have been rendered entirely using claymation or sock puppets or carved turnips, and the point would still stand.

The Eurovision pictures. Promo v Reality

Excellent point. Of course, should have thought of that. Rose is still male and passing isn’t the point of the character.

I have wound my neck in.

Still haven’t seen more than the first 10 minutes, I got interrupted so often I gave up.

Even the first Eurovision picture looks odd, like he's been photos hopped in or there's some weird Lord of the Rings stylie forced perspective.

Oddly, it reminded me of Tom Cruise's ex wives and girlfriends proclaiming, once the relationship was over, that they can now wear heels. Something tall women (or women with tiny boyfriends or husbands) often do but with tw not so much. Perhaps because, to them, high heels = women and so help with the fetish dysphoria.

I've not seen the DW episode barring the intro. Iirc the first shot of Rose was a very cheesecakey one, glancing around and smiling. Reminded me of the intros to those American sitcoms in the 70s. Each regular character would be introduced like that one after the other. The blokes would generally stare directly into the camera, the women would be glancing around and smiling.

If the actor wasn’t a trans identifying male I would agree with that - but as many people watching know he’s someone who already identifies as female and uses female pronouns we’re not supposed to be watching a male actor playing a 15 year old boy who wants to be a girl.

The whole thing is cuckoo.