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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
ArthurbellaScott · 26/11/2023 08:35

Excellent article. What's omitted?

Lamelie · 26/11/2023 08:36

What’s the glaring omission? It’s a good article.

BadSkiingMum · 26/11/2023 08:37

It’s an excellent article - what else do you feel should be in there?

Lamelie · 26/11/2023 08:40

She’s not centering biology because she’d be shut down and cancelled as a terf if she did but it’s there:
“The cause of women’s rights comes way down the pecking order for some progressives, below more fashionable issues like race and gender identity. How else to explain the left’s tendency to ignore or sideline Asian women inconveniently flagging sexism within their own communities; or that some people see it as a “progressive” cause to get women who think sex cannot be replaced by gender identity the sack?”
My holding.

‘White feminists’ are under attack from other women. There can only be one winner – men | Sonia Sodha

Undermining female solidarity serves only to strengthen the grip of the patriarchy

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/26/white-feminists-are-under-attack-from-other-women-here-can-only-be-one-winner--men

Cancelledcurio · 26/11/2023 08:40

You mean Sonia omitted terf?

ArseMenagerie · 26/11/2023 08:41

Sorry - my phone died before I could comment properly 😬 It’s a great article I just wondered about the lack of comment in an article including comment on ‘pernicious sex stereotypes’ and incel culture could fail to mention the issues around trans ideology. My thinking was that the Guardian won’t go there?

OP posts:
Lamelie · 26/11/2023 08:43

ArseMenagerie · 26/11/2023 08:41

Sorry - my phone died before I could comment properly 😬 It’s a great article I just wondered about the lack of comment in an article including comment on ‘pernicious sex stereotypes’ and incel culture could fail to mention the issues around trans ideology. My thinking was that the Guardian won’t go there?

It is there- see my holding but yes, she’s having to pull her punches.

ArseMenagerie · 26/11/2023 08:43

Yes, it’s nicely coded in there @Lamelie and I hugely rate Sodha as a writer, I’m just irritated by the fact we can’t be explicit about the current issues.

OP posts:
ArthurbellaScott · 26/11/2023 08:47

Sonia Sodga writes for the Observer, iirc, and writes and speaks very clearly on those issues.

I thought it was informative - if depressing - to see an overview of women's rights in context- and she is reviewing an exhibition so responding to the content of that.

napody · 26/11/2023 08:50

Fantastic article. Puts it in context. Able to be shared by many many women who are unable (and yes I meanunable, by dint of their jobs and precarious financial existences) to be out as terf.
And if all of the structural issues she lists were permanently solved, I for one wouldn't give a shit about anyone identifying as anything. I am a terf BECAUSE of all of those issues.

BadSkiingMum · 26/11/2023 08:51

But it is there, albeit concisely.

I think it is actually very useful to foreground the other big issues because it puts into context how petty and pernicious it is to criticise women for wanting to name, highlight and prioritise women.

lanadelgrey · 26/11/2023 09:32

If you ever see Sonia Sodha on TV, you’ll notice her fondness for a dinosaur necklace. She doesn’t tub thump but has consistently made her views clear for several years now

EverySporkIsSacred · 26/11/2023 09:56

lanadelgrey · 26/11/2023 09:32

If you ever see Sonia Sodha on TV, you’ll notice her fondness for a dinosaur necklace. She doesn’t tub thump but has consistently made her views clear for several years now

Great idea actually. I already have a time turner bag charm as a nod to JK, might look for some nice dinosaur jewelry for myself for Christmas. Will be fun to wear around my overly "inclusive" family over the festive season!

LoobiJee · 26/11/2023 10:23

It’s an excellent piece of writing. She’s right to call out the “divide and conquer” techniques which are used to silence and sideline women standing up for women’s rights, and to point out that internalised misogyny is weaponised to get younger women on side with using other women as scapegoats, and distract them away from focusing on the actual perpetrators (eg in cases of male on male violence).

If there’s a glaring omission, it’s not mentioning how much ‘progressive’ discourse in the UK now seems to be imported from / dictated by US culture.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 26/11/2023 14:19

Lamelie · 26/11/2023 08:43

It is there- see my holding but yes, she’s having to pull her punches.

We might think she pulled her punches, but the fact that she centres a feminism piece on biology, and explicitly distinguishes it from gender, will have set off the terf klaxon at the guardian (she writes for the observer). I wonder if we will see a reaction?

Cancelledcurio · 26/11/2023 17:00

Love a wee sleekit bit of dinosaur jewellery or suffragette badge or ribbon . We terfs in or out are working hard and will never submit!!!

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