Conservative candidate resigns after trans comments

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2z7663p16o

Quote from the BBC article:

A Conservative Parliamentary candidate has resigned after it emerged he made controversial comments about transgender people and migrants during a school debate.

Nick Rose was set to contest the Norwich North seat at the next general election, having been selected by members of the Norwich Conservative Federation on 29 October.

On Tuesday, an education trust lodged a complaint against Mr Rose.

...

In a video posted online... he appeared to say: "A bloke wearing a dress who identifies as a woman should be in a male prison [and] should not be allowed in women's toilets. For goodness sake.

"How on earth, all of you ladies here, can allow a bloke in a dress to come into your loos? It's disgusting."

He also made comments about migrants entering the UK illegally, describing their arrival as an "invasion".

In response, Don Evans, chief executive of the Broad Horizons Education Trust, which runs the school, said: "We do not feel those comments were appropriate to be aired in a school environment in the manner he chose to do so, as they conflict with the inclusive environment of the school community and are at odds with the content of the school's curriculum.

"Whilst we fully support the principle that our students should experience a broad range of views and opinions, we cannot allow our schools to become a platform for views that are fundamentally incompatible with our approach and ethos."

He sounds nice !

So it seems that "inclusivity" becomes the justification for censorship of alternative views.

They allow a "broad range of views", but suggesting that "men aren't women" is just going way too far for them.

So "broad range of views" really means strict ideological censorship apparently.

You'd like him to be more tactful in expressing that men who identify as women should not be in women's spaces? At what point did the truth get too truthy?

I agree with him. On both points

Yes, he does - standing up for women's rights and all (the sort of women who don't have a penis, for clarification). Would you prefer he just kept quiet?

He's a prick for putting the responsibility on women. These people aren't our friends.

I'm not sure we should censor political candidates, even in a school debate, just because some people may not think they are being "nice".

Is "niceness" the only thing that matters?

What about fairness? What about privacy of people?

And does this 'inclusive environment' the school is so proud of include female children who want rights, equality and male free spaces? And include those who don't even get a choice about this but through protected characteristics can't?

It's that female exclusionary male supremacist kind of 'inclusion' again, where the word's being used to disguise the actual truth.

Which is interesting because the main beef seems to be 'bloke in a dress' does not sufficiently disguise the actual truth.

God I hate this endless, utterly bullshit anti-migrant rhetoric that comes from these knobheads. And apparently at least one PP.

I was mildly gender critical for a couple of years but have since changed my mind.

When I see idiots like this one dismiss such a complex issue to ‘blokes in loos’ - never mind the nasty ‘immigrant invasion’ part - I feel more certain I’m on the right side of the debate.

Can’t believe so many are defending him here. At least Graham Linehan is thoughtful and articulate. This guy is a twat.

Oh yay! It's another 'I once believed women should have equality to men but then I saw women being mean and nasty to men and now I'm male supremascist' one.

No love, I don't think you were ever interested in equality for women.

I agree with this so fucking hard.

"How on earth, all of you ladies here, can allow a bloke in a dress to come into your loos? It's disgusting."

Paradoxically tone deaf to the threat facing women who challenge these men, while the whole point of 'no men in women's spaces' rhetoric is about the threat that men pose. I really think these kind of men just fundamentally don't get the issue in the round, and aren't actually willing to listen to women when we talk about it which is ironic because that's exactly the trouble with the TRAs.

The BBC has lifted the story from here:

www.edp24.co.uk/news/23940189.nick-rose-resigns-conservative-candidate-norwich/?ref=suit

It's hard to tell - even with the clip - whether the comments were made in front of children. Neither news outlet states whether children were present, or what age they were. Therefore it's hard to say whether the Trust's response was in response to the audience age.

I don't like what he has to say. But he should be allowed to say what he thinks at a hustings.

The link above seems to show that due diligence is lacking. Someone like this is always going to be the story, rather than someone serving the public.

@alrighthen

When I see idiots like this one dismiss such a complex issue to ‘blokes in loos’

What modern progressives want, is anyone to be able to "Self ID" in there.

So you could have a full beard, no effort, and go in because you say you are a "woman", or even, "non binary and feel more comfortable in the women's".

It kind of is, "blokes in loos".

It's not post operation transsexuals we are talking about here anymore, who certainly have a medical issue of some type, and at least some people may be more willing to make accommodations because of that. Of course, even then, they are still biological males.

I guess Norwich Conservatives decided he wouldn't exactly be a vote winner come election time. The only way tories have a chance in Norwich is if they are very much on the left of the party, as is Chloe Smith the incumbent.

Alrighthen, I’m happy to agree that this guy’s a twat who has a set of ill-considered and untested views, and yet feels qualified to comment.

I am interested though in how someone can go from GC to believing that gender identities a) exist in any meaningful way and b) trump sex in sex-segregated areas of life. Can you explain please?

You're allowed to disagree with him. That doesn't mean he should be censored. Concerns about illegal immigration are shared by a substantial percentage of the voters and so some politicians may represent that.

This. And once you have agreed that some male people should be able to use women's spaces, you have made your peace with the fact that many vulnerable women must accept having no access at all to the women's space or any space, so that males can have more comfort, choice and understanding of their complex situation.

It is a sex based, binary decision rooted in male supremacism. You believe that male people's needs and complexities matter - and that women's don't. And that it's ok to take everything from some women so that some men can have more.

It's morally indefensible.

@PorcelinaV was he censored? I'm not sure anyone stopped him from saying these things. But the local Conservative association clearly decided that what he said didn't align with Conservative policy and so stripped him of PPC status.

No different to Jeremy Corbyn being kicked out of the Labour party for running his mouth about, well, everything.

I think if you want to be able to say what you like as a politician, the only option is to run as an independent, then you won't be bound by party policy.

The education trust running the school wanted him censored, and that's worrying because in practice they may be limiting the debates allowed in schools in an illegal and unethical way.

@PorcelinaV
You're allowed to disagree with him. That doesn't mean he should be censored. Concerns about illegal immigration are shared by a substantial percentage of the voters and so some politicians may represent that

He’s resigned presumably because he’s under pressure to do so from his own party. The wider context being that the Tories are about to fight a national election campaign, are adrift 20+ points in the polls, and are thustrying to brush up their image ASAP as not being just just an immigration obsessed party (which has amusingly nevertheless failed to meaningfully cut immigration, despite poleaxing our economic prospects with Brexit).

So in that context, calling immigrants/refugees “an invasion” is pretty stupid and hurts his party’s image - in addition to being unpleasant and inflammatory.

@PorcelinaV

The education trust running the school wanted him censored, and that's worrying because in practice they may be limiting the debates allowed in schools in an illegal and unethical way

It doesn’t say in the article that they wanted him censured, merely that the school complained. Presumably because they felt he presented his views in an immature way, not befitting the environment and seriousness of the topics, eg “a bloke in a dress“, “disgusting”, and “invasion”. Basically, he had every right to give a silly reactionary speech using emotive language, the school had every right to complain about such (having the expectation that they’d invited a serious grown up), and his Conservative association had every right to either back his silly speech or to ask him to consider stepping down. They chose the latter.

@usernamealreadytaken I actually agree with him 100% about the trans comments- I disagree with him about the other things- it's not just the trans comments

He said what most people think about blokes in women's and girls' intimate spaces. And if people DON'T think that, then they're thick, or they hate women or they're predatory.

Or all three.