Government response to petition about gender vs sex on passports etc

[theilltemperedclavecinist]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/637290?reveal_response=yes

What is this word salad?

It's the usual bollocks. The point being deliberately obfuscated is that Gender and sex are NOT the same thing therefore a document requiring identification of sex should state that not fucking gender. It shows just how ludicrous the whole GRA is.

It is a rubbish response. Confuses gender and sex, commits to nothing.

This popped up in my emails this morning,same old shit.

Until policy makers stop confusing gender with sex. we will not have single sex spaces or services. I see absolutely no reason why a mans identity should trump biological reality....issuing GRCs has created a host of problems which has wasted so much time for everyone!

Systems are in place to support transgender people in obtaining a passport or driving licence in their acquired gender, with the appropriate security procedures in place, without the need for a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC). Passports and driving licences are often part of the evidence provided by transgender people to the Gender Recognition Panel to obtain a GRC.

I'm not sure GRCs are the problem, so much as the willingness to alter ID documents on someone's say-so - when their whole purpose is to prove that someone is who they say they are, based on testable parameters. M or F is testable: GI not so much.

(I'm not against GI/trans identity optionally being on ID as well, because it's useful information for an otherwise potentially confused official, particularly if strip searching is called for.)

In short, it's the woolly thinking I can't cope with.

Weaksauce as fuck.

'The Minister for Women and Equalities has asked officials to undertake detailed policy and legal analysis, as per the EHRC’s request, to understand the impact of its advice on various protected groups and related issues arising.'

This is the only interesting bit. Can we ask for more info on that analysis?

It’s responses like this that make it clear that we’ve got into an absolute muddle re gender and sex. I suspect that many involved in writing it can see it’s confused but can’t write anything else without admitting that mistakes have been made in the past to arrive at the current situation.

Its easy to understand; when they say ''We are absolutely committed to championing the rights of women and girls'', they mean TWAW.

I got this as signed the petition

And wondered the same

I worry that putting inaccurate information like "gender" in lieu of sex will make our passports a joke to other countries. This could lead to invasive checks in foreign countries.

my reading of the response was 'we need to let people lie in smaller ways so that they can create evidence for the big fat lie that is a GRC'

Yes. I think it's pretty obvious that allowing people to falsify important legal documents will only lead to the present shitshow that we are in. But the government and civil service can't openly admit this because it would also be an admission of a giant fuck-up in terms of legislation and policy by successive UK governments.

But petitions like this are a good way to probe the bureaucratic machine. I didn't actually think it would be 'successful' per se. But we now know they are planning to 'undertake detailed policy and legal analysis' and can push to see the outcome of that published.

Precisely. It's all about letting people lie and falsify important documents under the guise of 'human rights'. But quite awkward for the UK government to openly admit this is the current state of affairs.

Unfortunately they aren’t alone. Most of the English speaking world are doing the same thing, so their embarrassment may not be as acute as it ought to be.

The problem is that when the GRA was passed 'gender' and 'sex' were held to be synonymous, as is evident from discussions at the time and judgements since

The explanatory notes to the Equality Act 2010 use the term "transsexual person" for someone with the characteristic of gender reassignment.

Legislators and policy makers woukd need to agree that sex and gender are actually different things. And define the two terms.

Edited: typos

Exactly and backed up by major international institutions

So what do we do about that?

Yep. Many of them are noticing it’s a more complex issue than first thought but they’re still pushing ahead because everyone else is doing it. It’s the most bizarre exercise in group think.

Honestly!! Can we have the parents names included on passports first?! I'm sick of being stopped and asked if they're my kids because we have a different surname!

Not just the English speaking world - Argentina, India, Denmark, France, Spain, Italy + undoubtedly other western European countries.

More evidence that no, women and girls' rights and equality, safeguarding, and the basic grip on paperwork reflecting actual reality, is impossible while that truly stupid piece of legislation continues to exist. It has fucked up everything.

The issue is the GRA and it has to go.