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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off at start of match

320 replies

IwantToRetire · 14/11/2023 19:14

A pool player has forfeited her chance to win a top national title in protest at the sport allowing a transgender woman to compete against natal females.

Lynne Pinches packed up her cue and walked off as the final of the Ladies Champions of Champions got under way over the weekend.

Spectators clapped and cheered Pinches’ protest while her opponent, Harriet Haynes, appeared bemused before later picking up the trophy by default.
Pinches had been among a host of top female players to speak out in recent days over transgender women being allowed to compete against them in elite competitions.

More Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off at start of match (yahoo.com)

Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off

A pool player has forfeited her chance to win a top national title in protest at the sport allowing a transgender woman to compete against natal females.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/female-pool-player-lynne-pinches-141515605.html

OP posts:
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27
LuckyCats · 14/11/2023 23:41

Did he walk round the table and make the sign of a gun to the head? It was it the twirly fingers like someone mental?
what a loser.
Good on Lynne, if anyone sets up a crowd fund I’d be happy to donate something to make up for her lost winnings, can’t give much on my own but I’d be happy to contribute something as a thank you even if it only amounts to covering her costs for a waste of an outing or enough so that she can treat her lovely son a bit more this Christmas.
Anyone else notice it might be more working glass sports and spaces this is not gonna fly?
Universities are captured, working men’s clubs not so much.

fixies · 15/11/2023 00:12

It's pool! Do men have an advantage here? It's hardly athletic!

ClemFandangoCanYouHearMe · 15/11/2023 00:24

fixies · 15/11/2023 00:12

It's pool! Do men have an advantage here? It's hardly athletic!

Plenty of info on this very thread about advantages men have

IwantToRetire · 15/11/2023 00:50

Iudncuewbccgrcb · 14/11/2023 22:07

I played pool competitively when I was younger.

at my peak I was a better player than your average man down the pub, but against my male peers competitively it remained unequal.

as a woman I was nearly always smaller than any males I played against, in pool that meant I had to stretch further/was more unstable taking the shot if it required reaching across the table.

my arm span was shorter, generally meaning less power when breaking or taking long shots/ doubles.

Boobs. Boobs were a particular issue for me. Men with big bellies can kind of brace them against the table, boobs hang down onto the table. I often had to contort myself to prevent my chest from hitting a pool ball which would be a foul.

sexism/sexual assault. Lost count of the times I had lewd comments made whilst bending over to take a shot (obviously not in competitions) Or my arse felt. A common one was also a pool cue shoved between my legs when I was bent down.

As a woman I didn't feel I could go and practise for hours on my own down the pool hall like the men could, practising shots over and over again like they did. If I went I went with others, because I got hassled if I didn't. And because I went with others that meant sharing a table, taking turns, being a good sport, not being 'selfish'.

As you get older it's less socially acceptable for women to leave the kids for the evening to go down the pub for pool matches, or pool practice. The men don't really want you there either much in the same way a man turning up to an otherwise female only group would change the dynamic.

Because hardly any other women play you have a much smaller 'pool' of players to compete against who have the same disadvantages as you.

This reallly makes it clear it is both the physical difference and the social difference.

And similar for women in many other sports.

Thanks @Iudncuewbccgrcb

OP posts:
OutOfSyncWithReality · 15/11/2023 01:01

And everyone cheered and clapped - oh wait, they did! Good for you Lynne.

UtopiaPlanitia · 15/11/2023 01:54

inkjet · 14/11/2023 20:01

According to Stella O’Malley the science is undecided on the male advantage in pool.

I genuinely mean no offence to Stella O’Malley but after her recent decisions at the Genspect event (and afterwards), I’ll not be taking at face value what she thinks science says or doesn’t say.

catduckgoose · 15/11/2023 01:56

It's awful that Lynne and all the other female players in that tournent were being coerced into competing with a man, but good on her for sticking to her principles and walking away!

sashh · 15/11/2023 06:06

titchy · 14/11/2023 19:35

Presumably longer reach and larger hands too

And a lower heart rate.

LindorDoubleChoc · 15/11/2023 06:20

I just wish this was all over the news - far too many people are unaware/simply don't give it a thought. She's a courageous woman but it's infuriating she should have been put in this position.

Giggorata · 15/11/2023 06:39

Good for Lynne, refusing to play gender charades.
And it’s appalling that her male opponent was permitted to just walk off with the women's title and prize money.

ChaToilLeam · 15/11/2023 06:47

Lynne Pinches is the true winner.

Look at the smirk on the face of a shameless man picking up a prize he was not entitled to. Good for Pinches refusing to play this ridiculous and unfair game. The audience know what’s what.

Dowhadiddydiddydum · 15/11/2023 06:55

I just get so incredibly confused by how this can be justified. If there is, apparently, no sex advantage then why not announce they are having mixed set competitions now. If sex does make a difference then it makes a difference no matter the male calls themselves or wears.

For what it’s worth though I agree with someone earlier who says they don’t understand why people need science to prove the advantage…..when it’s so blindly obvious to most people why males have an advantage in sport. The onus should be on proving they don’t have an advantage, not proving they do.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 15/11/2023 06:56

Good on Lynne. She should have got the trophy as the only woman who turned up.

Needmoresleep · 15/11/2023 07:53

Don’t forget the runner up trophy to the woman who lost to a man in the semi final. Nor the woman who was unable to enter the event because her place was taken by a man.

Lynne represented herself, but also many other women.

JustSpeculation · 15/11/2023 07:57

A question - why do women's sports have to be justified by the science? Surely, if there's a tournament for women only, for whatever reasons, then it's for women only and that's the end of the matter. As women are clearly a disadvantaged group in sport, the burden of proof lies on those who want to transgress the idea of women only, surely. There has been no coherent argument I have seen supporting the idea that women should move over and open up space.

EtiennePalmiere · 15/11/2023 08:12

LuckyCats · 14/11/2023 23:41

Did he walk round the table and make the sign of a gun to the head? It was it the twirly fingers like someone mental?
what a loser.
Good on Lynne, if anyone sets up a crowd fund I’d be happy to donate something to make up for her lost winnings, can’t give much on my own but I’d be happy to contribute something as a thank you even if it only amounts to covering her costs for a waste of an outing or enough so that she can treat her lovely son a bit more this Christmas.
Anyone else notice it might be more working glass sports and spaces this is not gonna fly?
Universities are captured, working men’s clubs not so much.

There was a thread here about the working class connection, it's interesting.

Edit for link : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905740-trans-the-new-ideology-of-the-ruling-class-article

BadSkiingMum · 15/11/2023 08:31

Good on Lynne! The size/reach difference between them is so obvious from the video.

Not right at all, but I wonder if the reason why he still picked up the trophy is because the game was technically started? He took a shot, broke the cluster of balls and then it was Lynne’s turn. That was when she walked away. The match should really have been declared void.

So many apologists seem to think that allowing mixed sex arrangements in sport or other competitive events will apply to ‘the special case’ - the isolated, excluded and vulnerable individual who has been through so much and just wants to play, take part or compete in a humble way to fulfil their dreams, all the while enjoying the camaraderie of ‘the girls’.

No, as has been seen in many sports, as soon as they are allowed into a female event these men will use every physical advantage they have to push their way onto the winner’s podium (possibly injuring women along the way) and then gloat over their opponents.

inkjet · 15/11/2023 09:33

UtopiaPlanitia · 15/11/2023 01:54

I genuinely mean no offence to Stella O’Malley but after her recent decisions at the Genspect event (and afterwards), I’ll not be taking at face value what she thinks science says or doesn’t say.

Agreed. I should have put a Hmm after my post to be clear I thought she was talking nonsense.

Boiledbeetle · 15/11/2023 09:44

I'm glad she walked away.

I'm as angry as hell that she was put in the position where she had to make that decision though.

Beowulfa · 15/11/2023 10:07

I was also going to say the demographic of the audience played a part here. Gender-woo is a middle class luxury belief.

Congratulations on winning the moral prize, Lynne.

MenopauseSucks · 15/11/2023 10:12

Billboard Chris gave this explanation on X/Twitter about male/female differences in pool/snooker.

Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off at start of match
MsRosley · 15/11/2023 10:13

MavisMcMinty · 14/11/2023 19:31

I was wondering what advantage men might have against women at pool, and found this in the article:

Players calling for tougher restrictions claim transgender women often have greater upper body strength enabling them to make a more powerful initial break.

Good for Lynne.

Not just that, they're taller and have a longer reach. I'm 5ft1 and used to play some pool, and it's a real disadvantage being short.

duc748 · 15/11/2023 10:43

What @Iudncuewbccgrcb said, but the perceived male advantages aren't really the main point, are they? Surely the main point is fairness. It's a women's comp, it should be for women only. What I didn't get is that this issue didn't just magic up a couple of days ago. I didn't know HH was a TW, but she's been winning trophies for years, and obviously all the other women players would have known this, and (presumably) just sucked it up so far. Now someone has made a stand, I wonder what will happen.

Dontmesswiththeyakult · 15/11/2023 10:48

Lynne - what an absolute legend. Well done. I truly hope you inspire all sportswomen to do the same. There is no place for biological men in women's sports.

ZeldaFighter · 15/11/2023 10:53

The science is already there.

Harriet Haynes obviously sprang fully formed from the head of Zeus but Chris/Christopher Haynes did not.

What are his stats as a man?
Was he Men's Champion of Champions?
What are his speeds / results / scores before and after transition?
Has his game improved or weakened since transition?

I can assure you I've had a look but just like darts player "Victoria" Monaghan, the information is not there. Unless Chris Haynes either never played before or was such a poor player before transition, they have gone from lower-league Men's player to Women's Champion of Champions in a year.

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