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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Owen Jones comes out fighting for "Actual Free Speech"

170 replies

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/11/2023 09:17

https://x.com/ucu/status/1722666107163832603?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

"We should start a new campaign for actual free speech says @OwenJones84

It's time to take a stand"

Looking forward to him unblocking all the women he's blocked on Twitter and hearing what they have to say. Free speech is for everyone, right?

OP posts:
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RoyalCorgi · 10/11/2023 09:50

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 10/11/2023 09:45

"This post has been deleted."

😂

What a shame. We were all enjoying it so much.

More seriously, though, I do think the current Palestine-Israel fiasco shows just how hard it is to embrace free speech as a principle. Just as Owen, the UCU and cronies are suddenly discovering the importance of free speech now that their own ability to speak freely is in peril, we can note that the government (and its allies), which has been banging on for a while about the importance of free speech in universities and elsewhere, is suddenly less keen on the idea if it means people expressing pro-Palestinian views.

BezMills · 10/11/2023 09:50

pickledandpuzzled · 10/11/2023 09:47

Really?! Self censorship?!

I don't think LOJ has self-censored in his life. He just blabs his branes on the twits as the thoughts are thunk, looks like.

ArthurbellaScott · 10/11/2023 09:52

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 10/11/2023 09:45

"This post has been deleted."

😂

Aw, no! I was going to enjoy rewatching that! I hope someone has archived?

Signalbox · 10/11/2023 09:53

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 10/11/2023 09:45

"This post has been deleted."

😂

Oh fuck it’s not going how we’d hoped. Abort! UCU or OJ will now put out a tweet about a hateful pile on proving OJ’s point about free speech only being for nasty right-wing bigots.

ArthurbellaScott · 10/11/2023 09:54

I can't find an archive. 😭

ArthurbellaScott · 10/11/2023 09:56

Signalbox · 10/11/2023 09:53

Oh fuck it’s not going how we’d hoped. Abort! UCU or OJ will now put out a tweet about a hateful pile on proving OJ’s point about free speech only being for nasty right-wing bigots.

£10 on OJ issuing a tweet about how he was attacked, by women whom he'd blocked for politely disagreeing with him.

Signalbox · 10/11/2023 09:58

RoyalCorgi · 10/11/2023 09:50

What a shame. We were all enjoying it so much.

More seriously, though, I do think the current Palestine-Israel fiasco shows just how hard it is to embrace free speech as a principle. Just as Owen, the UCU and cronies are suddenly discovering the importance of free speech now that their own ability to speak freely is in peril, we can note that the government (and its allies), which has been banging on for a while about the importance of free speech in universities and elsewhere, is suddenly less keen on the idea if it means people expressing pro-Palestinian views.

Yes I find it’s really easy to fall into the trap of feeling a bit glad when my political opponents get a taste of their own medicine. It definitely takes a bit of work to stand by the principal when you are on the other side of things.

MargotBamborough · 10/11/2023 10:00

RoyalCorgi · 10/11/2023 09:17

Surely one day Owen Jones will collapse under the weight of his own hypocrisy.

It's incredible that this has not already happened, given that it must weigh at least ten times what he does.

SaffronSpice · 10/11/2023 10:04

I have no time for OJ and in this case the tweet isn’t even his, it is the University and College Union. The very same UCU whose Edinburgh staff called for the showing of Adult Human Female film there to be blocked, who have supported the censorious actions of members time and again.

NoMoreRedWineforFreda · 10/11/2023 10:07

The tweet may be gone but it’s ghost lives on in the quote tweets!

Owen Jones comes out fighting for "Actual Free Speech"
Signalbox · 10/11/2023 10:08

ArthurbellaScott · 10/11/2023 09:54

I can't find an archive. 😭

It does appear to have been entirely wiped from the internet. Someone must have a copy 🙏

SaffronSpice · 10/11/2023 10:09

RoyalCorgi · 10/11/2023 09:50

What a shame. We were all enjoying it so much.

More seriously, though, I do think the current Palestine-Israel fiasco shows just how hard it is to embrace free speech as a principle. Just as Owen, the UCU and cronies are suddenly discovering the importance of free speech now that their own ability to speak freely is in peril, we can note that the government (and its allies), which has been banging on for a while about the importance of free speech in universities and elsewhere, is suddenly less keen on the idea if it means people expressing pro-Palestinian views.

The problem with the Palestine-Israel issue is not support for one side or the other, or demands for government to apply political pressure, or even military pressure in favour of either side. The problem is the risk of importing the conflict itself into the UK (or other countries).

sashagabadon · 10/11/2023 10:10

What happened to #no debate

RoyalCorgi · 10/11/2023 10:10

SaffronSpice · 10/11/2023 10:04

I have no time for OJ and in this case the tweet isn’t even his, it is the University and College Union. The very same UCU whose Edinburgh staff called for the showing of Adult Human Female film there to be blocked, who have supported the censorious actions of members time and again.

You have to ask: do these people have any capacity for self-reflection at all? Even a little bit? It amazes me that these are academics whose job it is to think critically, and yet not only do they engage in bullying and censorship of people they disagree with, they then have the nerve to cry foul if there's a hint of someone doing it to them. It's not just the hypocrisy that's breathtaking, it's the sheer fucking stupidity.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/11/2023 10:13

THE TRANSCRIPT

<opens with our hero sitting on a set of fancy stairs>

"I wonder if this is the beginning of a new campaign here, because the right should never have been able to steal the garbs of free speech and all the rest of it.

You know, the way they tried to redefine it was a right of powerful people to say, often bigoted, prejudiced, worse, more extreme things than that about minorities that are marginalised without any right of anyone to respond to what they said, that even the very act of characterising their speech as inflaming prejudice against often relatively voiceless minorities, that’s an attack on free speech. Even though we hear that people who claim they’re cancelled, who do so from their newspaper columns, from television screens, from their book deals, you know, the whole thing is ludicrous.

I think we should start a new campaign for actual free speech, and I think it’s borne out of what we’re seeing at the moment, which is, you know, throughout history it’s always been progressives who defended actual genuine free speech and the right of free academic enquiry, which is what the government doesn’t want. And I just wonder if it’s now the beginning of a, you know, given they have tried to turn this on us, that we build a broad based campaign, where we actually use this as a case study, of how the government has tried to shut down free speech.

And the reason I say this is, you know, they claim that this idea of cancel culture, which they’ve claimed is intimidating often powerful people who keep their powerful positions is some new phenomenon.

The left, those deemed progressive have always been on the receiving end. You had the first Red Scare back after World War I, in which you had deportations, arrests, academics being intimidated, and you had of course, McCarthyism, which was known as the second Red Scare at the time. There’s a long tradition of this, and it’s so important that we stand our ground, we build these broad coalitions, and we make it clear that we are erm, you know, the true- that uh, that we hold the flame of genuine free speech and free academic enquiry, the ability of academics to freely explore often areas deemed controversial by the establishment, and that’s what they want to shut down.

I just think a new campaign could be born."

<smug face to camera>

OP posts:
NoMoreRedWineforFreda · 10/11/2023 10:15

I’ve found a SS to go with the transcript!

Owen Jones comes out fighting for "Actual Free Speech"
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/11/2023 10:17

Perfect thank you!

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 10/11/2023 10:20

So by "actual free speech" he means "the right to say things I agree with".

InvisibleDuck · 10/11/2023 10:21

Genuine free speech, according to Owen Jones, appears to be the freedom to say all the the things that he and his oh-so-virtuous friends agree with.

I'm sure he still thinks that the words he disagrees with are all 'hate speech' and shouldn't be allowed.

Owen Jones has always been in favor of free speech. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Signalbox · 10/11/2023 10:23

Even though we hear that people who claim they’re cancelled, who do so from their newspaper columns, from television screens, from their book deals, you know, the whole thing is ludicrous.

Presumably he’s talking about himself here.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/11/2023 10:23

That transcript surely is exaggerated?!

As in, he didn't say those exact words - nobody could be that insufferable, surely?!

NoMoreRedWineforFreda · 10/11/2023 10:24

I think he’s talking about the same themes in this YouTube vid from yesterday (it’s not the one from the tweet because the location, LOJ’s living room, isn’t the posh fancy steps of the tweet!)

Suella Braverman's UNHINGED NONSENSE Taken Apart

Wow. She's really gone off the deep end this time. Unhinged is actually generous.Please like, subscribe - and help us take on the right-wing media here: http...

https://youtu.be/yahc3nEa1kE?si=McCo_bLQgZ4il0Si

Signalbox · 10/11/2023 10:26

The problem with the Palestine-Israel issue is not support for one side or the other, or demands for government to apply political pressure, or even military pressure in favour of either side. The problem is the risk of importing the conflict itself into the UK (or other countries).

There is definitely a sense of that happening at the moment. Things feel extremely tense.

TinselAngel · 10/11/2023 10:26

The best example he can come up with in the last 100 years is McCarthyism? What's that got to do with the UK?

RoyalCorgi · 10/11/2023 10:26

Hadley Freeman puts it nicely:

"Learning grammar, according to certain members of the left: I am unfairly cancelled, you are being held accountable, she is a hideous old bigot who must be driven out of her job and publicly shamed."

https://twitter.com/HadleyFreeman/status/1722914756082745803

https://twitter.com/HadleyFreeman/status/1722914756082745803