Dreaded LGBTQIA+ training approaching. What do I need to know?

[RandySavage]

Hello

Next week I have compulsory alphabet training. I have been unable to find out much about it, such as the name of the provider or an outline of the session. It will last for a half day.
The company I work for is pretty cool, and there have been few suggestions of TRAism in the past. Nobody has added pronouns to their work email, no one has asked for mine.

However, I’m dreading this session. I fear they will ask for my pronouns and I’m not sure how I’ll respond.
Any advice? What do I need to know before I go in? Should I just sit tight and say nothing (I like my job, and I do genuine good)? Am I worrying over nothing?

Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

If anyone asked me my pronouns in a work place setting I couldn’t keep my mouth shut - I’d have to “fawn” but say something about how I find the concept of declaring pronouns at work weird considering sex discrimination and the gender pay gap is still an issue in work place environments.

That still leaves flexibility for people to believe you’re raising an issue for people of all genders in the workplace

If I were asked my pronouns on a course, I’d just say ‘I don’t have any’ then carry on.

Is 'no, thank you' an acceptable answer?

I would be "off sick" that day.

You could say "I'm still learning about pronouns and want to keep an open mind at the moment".

Do question any homophobia, though.

very early on in all this we had similar training
first of all we were asked to come up with lists of slang words and phrases for gay men and lesbians (possibly also bisexuals and trans but I don't remember)
thanks to a recent discussion on MN I was able to offer a very extensive list, including 'friend of Dorothy' 'is good to his mother' and 'wears sensible shoes'

anyway, later there was an 'any questions' moment and my question was...I always wondered WHY the T has got lumped in with LGB? - LGB is to do with sexuality, and T is something else, what do they really have in common, what interests do they share?

trainer- well, I er, um, er, well, its er, well, I suppose you may have a point, I er...um...

I've thought about this and I'd say just approach it like sny other training- assume it's got something to tell you. There is good training out there, or at least training that gets the basics of legislation etc right. I know for sure I would have stuff to learn from this even though in theory I'm included under LGBTQ+ myself.

Most trainers are canny and wouldn't put attenders on the spot for actions to take. Likewise I'd be very unlikely to say anything in a session like this.

At the very worst, it keeps you informed as to where your organisation is as things change, and who they are employing to train. Knowledge is power.

I would be "off sick" that day.

I did consider this, but decided attending is better for reasons given in PermanentTemporary's post.

I think I'll have my finger hovering over the 'record voice note' button on my phone.

I would make sure I had a list of the 9 protected characteristics as set out in the Equality Act:
Age
Disability
Gender Reassignment
Marriage & Civil Partnership
Pregnancy & maternity
Race
Religion or belief
Sex
Sexual orientation

If you are comfortable pick up if they use gender rather than sex. Gender is different to sex and is part of religion or belief ( gender identity belief) PC which also includes Gender Critical beliefs.

Remember the Equality Act is clear the Protected Characteristics are all equal and one does not take precedence over another.

With pro nouns I would probably go along but use my own initials (they actually work) or say she/ her. If I felt brave I would say I don’t believe in Gender Identity Theory my sex based pro nouns are she/her.

These I would only raise if I felt safe and wasn’t a coward, but are bug bears of mine :

• why do you include the “I” for intersex when a) stonewall are clear they have asked not to be included in LGBT etc. b) it is an out dated term DSD (Differences or Disorders of Sex Development) is the term the NHS use.

• Cis prefix - I find the use of this prefix offensive, I accept other people’s right to use the prefix to describe themselves but please can attendees refrain from using it to describe me.

• I would have one question ready just in case - I have read about the Forstater EAT judgement how does our organisation manage the risk of similar claims by ensuring we don’t inadvertently end up discriminating against employees who don’t believe in Gender Identity Theory? ( and end up looking like complete twats like Garden Court Cambers, CGD and the OU).

It's so strange that many other commenters here don't seem to understand what pronouns are, is a primary school lesson in order?

I, me, my, mine, myself.

"It's not a practice to which I adhere" - pronouns

I think people here understand exactly what pronouns are. It's the clowns who think you can choose your own and force others to use them that need the primary school lesson.

Obviously you should put your job and your work relations if not first, fairly high on your priorities, so if you dont feel up to being the one who challenges, maybe you could play it a bit naive.

At appropriate moments say because you aren't they well informed you googled a bit, and ask them
why are pronouns important
what is the difference between sex and gender
why are there some groups who think that it should only be LGB and others think it should be LGBTIQ+
is it true that a court case has ruled that believing sex is a biological fact is a protected believe
what if you are someone who just isn't sure about any of it, is it right that you are obliged to align yourself, can employers compel you to do this

I dont mean ask all of these, but just turn it round and get them to explain and what any of it has to do with the work that is the purpose of your organisation

Will there be similar training of staff to make them aware of different religious beliefs, as you certainly wouldn't want to cause offence or unintentionally insult someone of another faith

I’d have to “fawn” but say something about how I find the concept of declaring pronouns at work weird considering sex discrimination and the gender pay gap is still an issue in work place environments.

Yes, I'd make it clear that proactively asking people their pronouns can be very upsetting for many people, especially those who are struggling or coming to terms with a new trans identity - hence, in solidarity with those people, you don't engage with such requests; and so people can refer to you when you aren't there using whichever sex-based pronoun they would expect to be appropriate for you as a default.

That way, you appear to be teaching them a lesson in how they should be running their course - without ever giving anything personal away.

@Bobbymoore123

If I tell you my pronouns are "he/him", what information, specifically, do you take that to mean I am telling you about myself?

I'm really happy to learn, because it seems everyone infers something different from them, and some assumptions may be incorrect.

If it gets T heavy, ask them why you're being trained on some of the protected characteristics but not others.

That's good, the whole "pronouns shouldnt be mandatory because you risk outing people, everyone can have privacy for any reason" is a good subtle way to do this (that doesn't put an immediate mark on you like "what about employees with gc beliefs" does).
Also I'd add something about how many women don't want to bring up their sex in the workplace where it's not relevant because of sex discrimination. I find it super weird that LinkedIn or GitHub lets you add pronouns. No female programmer I know has "she/her" pronouns on her GitHub profile, why would they want to put an immediate flag to say "hello yes I am a woman developer".

Also you could mention "gender priming", this is the thing where they do studies where women and men take math tests and if they have to tick a "woman" box beforehand they do slightly worse than women who don't have to tick any box, basically because they're conscious of the stereotypes associated to the category when they have to disclose.
So if you make the point about sex discrimination without bringing trans into it at all, I find people get it. People aren't stupid, they just turn their brains off whenever the "trans" topic is floating around.

Try and ensure the session is recorded and share any output with the legal feminists.

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/about-us/

A lot of the stuff in these sessions goes against equality law and they can highlight these parts.

You could also do what I did and write an article for The Critic and share clips on social media of the trainer talking salaciously about wearing his sister's knickers (proof he's a woman) but that's a riskier strategy:

thecritic.co.uk/what-a-load-of-pants/

@IamSarah thank you, a really well written article.

I am in the camp that believes males with paraphillia’s including autogynephillia, are damaging to both women and some trans people.

Banning male people from single sex spaces is necessary and not transphobic.

Thank you @Sisterpita and yes agreed.

Some trans women do have AGP and are aroused at the thought of themselves as women. Real LGBT training would reference AGP and cross dressing and how these males make up part of the community.

L - women attracted to women
G - men attracted to men
B - women and men attracted to women and men
T - people with gender dysphoria including men attracted to themselves wearing women's clothes and who get aroused at the thought of being a lesbian.

You can bet this won't be covered in the training thought and the T will be about male people accessing women's spaces.

I stated that I didn't want to give pronouns at my work training and then the non-binary trainer reported me for misgendering them to our EDI lead I didn't, I was on high alert as was conscious I'd put a target on myself.
The trainer had said at the start that it was a safe space and misuse of any terms would be considered well-meaning. Funny how it only works one way, eh?

I've already corrected our EDI lead on using the word gender instead of sex in the list of protected characteristics. He loves me, as you can imagine...

I work for a government department that recently departed the SW scheme bollocks. Our global address list shows if people have included their pronouns beside their name on their email. Very few have done so, those that have are overwhelmingly 'she/her', and most of them all work in one particular area (notoriously woke, and definitely keen to be kind). I feel quite positive about my department, going forward.

"That's a rather outing question, so I think I will pass."

@PonyPatter44 ”I've already corrected our EDI lead on using the word gender instead of sex in the list of protected characteristics. He loves me, as you can imagine...”

Im trying to find the courage to do this. How did you do it? In writing or face to face etc? Hope you get the right response