Polly Toynbee asks why so many women are undecided how to vote?

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/27/female-voters-undecided-labour-rachel-reeves

not even a passing reference to the huge elephant in the room.

re all the comments "this never comes up on the doorstep when canvassing".

Has no one thought that the reputation of Labour re women is so bad ordinary people cant be bothered and stick to bread and butter issues.

Also and reminded of the saying much loved by those on the left and anarchists:

"whoever you vote for the government gets in"

Well obviously as that is what the vote is about.

But an alternative view is that:

"Voters get the government they deserve"

and whilst that might sound patronising, enough people voted for Brexit and however many years it is of Tory rule, so some of us thought it was a good idea.

Is the real problem that none of us want to get our hands dirty so say with pride "I would never go into politics", but somehow think parties who we rarely have contact with actually have any idea what any of us really think or want.

Not helped of course by the media, of all political loyalties, turning the whole thing into some sort of stupid tv game ie the really important person is the presenter who is in competitionwith other presenters to get a gottu moment.

Everything is so dumbed down, and people say really stupid things like I didn't vote for X or Y to be prime minister. Well of course not because you vote for a party. You cant say I want my vote back because the party you voted for has changed its leader.

The whole thing is f~cked.

And I used to think that if we had PR it would be better and more representative, but towards the end of the Theresa May era, that is virtually what we had. The Tories were not acting as a party but as different factions as keen on fighting each other as Labour. And Labour wasn't much better.

And the notion that an issue that is primarily about women's rights every finding its way to the top of these steaming pile of sh~t seems increasingly unlikely.

Even if Labour loses all the GC women's votes and all the Muslim votes because Starmer sold his soul to the Zionists in the Labour party to get elected, they will still get in. Not because they deserve to. But because the Tories have lost credibility.

Not everyone cares as much as you do see

Brexit is a positive. Better done by Labour however, if they had had the sense to see it and not be Pan-European Nationalists. Of course, the gravy train has done well by them.

There are bigger issues now, Muslims are leaving Labour in droves, I don’t imagine the majority of them are too keen on the trans evil either.

If you have the luxury of being superior enough that the equality of women, homosexuals, disabled and minority faiths/religions, or the clear intention to create totalitarianism in order to impose a new elite dominating the servant class doesn't bother you, then well done. Good for you.

But in that case you are only identifying as being socialist, and you don't pass.

I don't like Keir Starmer. He says stupid stuff about the Israel/Palestine mess on the radio, and he seems to be Blair-Lite and is concentrated so hard on getting elected by as many groups as possible without a coherent plan. Just like I think the Tories need Kemi Badenoch or Tom Tughandhat (spelling?) I think that Labour could do with Yvette Cooper or Angela Rayner.

I'm GC but my concerns for Labour are not just that. In my city we have a Labour Mayor who thinks he's president of the South East the fookin little Napoleon that he is.

There are so many problems within my suburb of London but my Labour MP can't be arsed to put pressure on the councils on her patch or the GLA. All I see of her on SM is taliking about Parkrun or getting pictures of herself in a local community centre somewhere.

I won't vote Labour nor Tory nor Green. I voted Count Binface in the last Mayoral election. I don't see that as wasting my vote or voting incorrectly, I still used my vote democratically as I should. In GEs I tend to write a rude word across the paper or vote for a fringe party. I am still exercising my democratic right to vote. I despise leftists who say certain groups should vote for certain parties. What balderdash. Very offensive and patronising.

I too am gc, I will not vote labour, not only because they are gi, also because they came up with a potential law that co habiting couples will be classed as married after a set time and if they split, all their assets will be split (more specifically the home) well I bought the home me and my partner live in and no way on gods green earth will he get any of it if we split. Ok you'll say it's a potential law, yes but I dont want labour to think I condone it.

Or as a pp said on the thread about it, married without consent. If I wanted to be married, I would.

It’s difficult to know how widespread the concern about GI ideology and its effect is, and whether it will change voter intentions, because people won’t talk about it for fear of the loonies and for fear of being judged by the well-meaning but Ill informed. I mean the parties could survey people via survey monkey or similar but I’m guessing their junior staff wouldn’t let them or would skew the questions so that they were unclear.

“…there have been times when I (very secretly) wished women had never got the vote.”

But that’s so often the problem with left wing politics, in this country at least. “We gave you a choice and you chose wrong! How could you let us down?!”

I'm with you on the co-habitee laws Labour suggests. If you choose not to marry then you can legally organise your affairs as you please and the state should not be telling you who gets what if you split up because there is no legal reason to do so, unless there are children involved, I suppose, since both have a responsibility to the children.

But that’s so often the problem with left wing politics, in this country at least. “We gave you a choice and you chose wrong! How could you let us down?!”

yes, the extremely left wing David Cameron shares those exact sentiments over a certain referendum 🙄

Remind me how hard Corbyn worked on staying in the EU again?

I need to redo the bingo card with a 'doorstep' option. What to call it? 'Shy doorsteppers'?

I think in all fairness though that was less the kind of hard baked snobbery and superiority with anti-democracy and much other prejudice now proudly endemic throughout the left, than a fantastically irresponsible flounce, following the results of a very, very stupid, badly timed and badly planned decision.

We're all stuck in the same boat of picking the least bloody awful from a field of no hopers. It's not like there's anyone out there to positively want to vote for.

I mean carry on suggesting that disappointment with the electorate is only associated with left wing politics if you like, don’t let anyone spoil your carpet of allegory….

(that was the point, @ResisterRex - you can save your ‘but Corbin’ for another day)

In fact, at the time I thought Cameron was scarpering after losing a referendum that was hardly urgent and definitely misjudged in terms of public mood. In Whitehall, it only really dawned on people close that they might lose. Outside zone 1, this was apparent for some time. And it is true that Corbyn may as well have hidden in that fridge of Boris's during the Brexit campaign for all the actual campaigning he did.

But now, I think Cameron did the right thing. He should have resigned. Compare and contrast with Boris and partygate. Where he just refused to and carried on and on. Leaders used to take responsibility. Certainly people used to either resign or be sacked from Cabinet. Can't remember the last time that happened. And there have been plenty of opportunities for sackings in recent years.

Agreed.

This reminds me of 1979 when IIRC Jill Tweedie urged all women to vote for Margaret Thatcher because it was more important to have the first woman PM than to worry about her policies. She was a Guardian columnist too.

I think it's far worse. She's not encouraging women to vote for a particular party, she's suggesting women aren't - what - intelligent enough? Moral enough? - to vote.

It's so utterly fucking offensive I just don't even know what to say.

My (truly) dear departed ex-MIL was a woman of strong, traditional beliefs and uncompromising language. She considered all politicians lying, thieving, good-for-nothings.
I was visiting one day when a Conservative canvasser knocked on the door. She opened the door, crossed her arms, glared at him, said “I don’t vote for no bastard” and shut the door in his face.
I often wish I got canvassed where I live now so I could channel my inner Jean.

I have continued to ponder this from earlier on the thread, and I think I was warmer the first time.

They feel whether you can vote or stand for parliament should rest on whether you've gone to seminary.

Government by clergy.

Aren't sufficiently holy. Only the enlightened should have a voice.

This reminds me of 1979 when IIRC Jill Tweedie urged all women to vote for Margaret Thatcher because it was more important to have the first woman PM than to worry about her policies. She was a Guardian columnist too.
I don't think that's a fair representation. As I remember the article, Jill Tweedie was basically thinking out loud, and asking readers whether, in the grand scheme of things, having a woman Prime Minister would be more important for women than the policies of the Conservative party. I also remember JT writing the following week that she hadn't voted for her, and printing letters from readers - all saying 'No way!'

It was over 40 years ago though so maybe I'm misremembering - would be interesting to see it again but I'm not sure if it's available any more.

That's such a Professional Left position. "Ladies, you can have a Woman but she won't be good for you or you can have a Man who knows what you need. That's the choice."

Most people I know don't see the point in voting any longer. We're quite aware that the trans agenda is driven by global corporations, not domestic politics.

I think the key issue that will get people to vote is the NHS - if anyone offers to 'save it' (unlikely as I don't think Labour have any more intention of saving it than the Tories).

Even though I live in a Labour strong hold, people have never forgotten the attacks on Iraq, voting turn out is low and gets lower every year.

I speed read the comments and trans considerations didn’t get a mention. However, as someone mentioned above, there were quite a few deletions