Andrew Miller/Amy George thread 2

[ArabellaScott]

'Defence advocate Victoria Dow told the court that Miller "recognises and feels the horror of his conduct" and was said to feel an "enduring sense of shame".
Miller was also said to have expressed concern over how his behaviour would affect the wider trans community.'

https://news.sky.com/story/andrew-miller-jailed-for-20-years-for-abducting-and-sexually-assaulting-girl-in-scottish-borders-12983829

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4737858-girl-abducted-in-galashiels-appears-to-have-been-held-by-transwoman

I would say that arguments about GRA and self ID are limited with regards to this case.

I think you are wrong.

Every single man who identifys as a woman, for a day, or like Andrew Miller/Amy George for years is protected under Gender Reassignment. That's whats allows him to determine which pronouns he gets address with in court.

In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex. That is, in part, the process to begin getting a GRC. Theres a good chance he had a passport and driving licence in his female name. He certainly could have them if he wanted to.

Because the GRA exists, the PC of GR needs to exist to allow these men to gain the proof they need to get a GRC and a female birth certificate. But these men can get passports and driving licences and be recorded as female for years before they do, if ever get a GRC. And in the meantime, they can switch between male and female when it suits them.

Because the GRA and PC of GR exists as they do, children are been told that men who dress as women, are women.

If the GRC didnt exist, men wouldnt need female id, courts wouldnt call men women, men wouldnt be in female spaces, children wouldnt be told that men in womens clothes are women.

It could have been bad lighting and noisy, but how sure can we be that the girl thought she saw a female woman or a man shes be taught to see as a woman?

Transwomen are men, and some men (a non trivial number of men) are monstrous.

Glad the judge imposed a long sentence for this absolutely horrific series of crimes.

It was early evening in winter Zutt. Cold, wet, dark. The girl thought Miller was an old woman. He probably put on a voice.

I have a similar age daughter who is cheerful and trusting of the world. Might my daughter have done the same? When they were little I used to tell my children to ask a woman for help if they ever got lost.

In his socials Miller was clearly emboldened by the debate over fetish men's rights in Scotland at the time. Locals have said that he'd been living 'as a woman' in the run up to the abduction.

This is a paedophile emboldened by community acceptance and an atmosphere where the Scottish government accepted self ID. Perhaps now people will be more skeptical of the motivations of men who do decide they are women and spend their time working on what in effect is a disguise.

The mitigation is disgusting and I am glad the judge saw right through it.

I live locally so I 'knew' Miller (previous customer of his shop, plus around town)
I also know of a rapist at the end of my road. He has done his time in prison but is still crossing boundaries with local women (will knock on front door of single women when it is dark with some spurious reason such as their dog is barking too much or their bin looks like it might blow off down the road, their car lights on etc). He also steals underwear locally. The local Police aren't taking action.
I've restricted where my autistic female child can walk. Her small friend group at school are aware (other parents are concerned). He's 'done his time' & I fully appreciate he is not Miller but it's still causing difficulties & may escalate again.
I am also angry that the women in the village have to adjust & be afraid of him.

Thank goodness, and thanks to the judge, for a sensible judgement in this case. Thoughts to the wee girl and her family. With any luck he will die in prison. And agree, Shona Robison and the rest of them need to read this judgement, read it and understand it.

I believe he is remorseful about harming the trans community and that’s why he’s on the he/him pronouns. But he sure as hell isn’t remorseful about harming that poor girl. Otherwise he’d never have made excuses about trying to be ‘motherly’. That is disgusting, insulting, gaslighting garbage.

He’ll let his male persona be guilty of this crime so he can emerge from his grubby cocoon like a beautiful butterfly, ready to make a fresh start as a TW, his past self erased. Hope he rots in hell before that ever happens.

So much this. Thank goodness for a sensible judge and let this be a precedent for other judges.

The harm to this poor girl can never be undone, I hope she manages to recover and go on to thrive.

If you look at the statistics of TW in prison this sort of offending is a feature not a bug.

Meanwhile all the idiots whose academic posturing is allowing this shit to happen are in court for the Jo Phoenix trial. How many kids are being gaslit in schools right now that TW are not as dangerous as men but are vulnerable and should be prioritised over the children themselves (e.g. using preferred pronouns, prioritising their self ID over the child's own perceptions). Too many, it's a safeguarding failure on a massive scale.

So according to local posters here, this person has been trans for decades, and yet the Guardian report only mentions trans status at the very end in passing of its report:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/18/paedophile-who-abducted-schoolgirl-while-dressed-as-a-woman-jailed-for-20-years

For shame the Guardian. How do you think this will make the victim and her family feel if they read it? Minimising part of the deception that the judge ruled was critical in the crime? Like it was when Katie Dolatowski attacked a child in a toilet?

How do these people live with themselves?

It was Scala I was listening to earlier (no mention of trans status in their news item). Was mentioned 3 times on Planet Rock news just now; that he was dressed as a woman, went by the name Amy George and the judge's specific comments. Interesting variation in editorial responses.

At least the Guardian says gender transitioning. Other news sites have transitioning to a woman or even female, tbf they may be quoting the court.

I don't know if I should give the Guardian credit, though I'd like to. It may just be an attempt to keep 'transwoman' out of the article.

Safeguarding:

Children are being taught in schools that they should not use correct sex pronouns for trans people. That the trans person's self perception is more important than THEIR (the child's) perception.

So if the trans person says 'you can trust me, get in the car' and children have been trained - as above -to prioritise trans people's feelings not their own. What happens?

I heard the ‘man dressed as a woman’ report on the BBC. Sorry but he is/was trans. You can’t decide he isn’t because you don’t like him.
Thatcher was a woman. I don’t agree with her politics, but I acknowledge her as a woman.
This individual is a trans woman no matter what way you cut it.

It’s just a good job that this never happens.

Nah, Thatcher succeeded in a man's job in a man's world ... surprised she's not been posthumously transed yet. Mind you, I suppose the handbags prove she really was a woman.

I am genuinely done with the Guardian now. I can't begin to describe how disappointed I am with them this week. They are an absolute disgrace.

The Guardian’s priorities are seriously warped. A young girl, horribly abused by a twisted predator, seems to have been forgotten in all this. Reading between the lines of the Guardian’s watered-down report, one can only imagine the editorial conference meeting. “Look folks, we’re going to say it’s a man dressed as a woman. No mention of trans in the headline either. We’ll bury it further down the copy, say he’s in the process of transitioning but it’s not happened yet. We don’t want to make trans people look bad as they’re already facing so much hate and prejudice from those right-wing bigots. We need to tread carefully here.”

What about the girl?

He is exactly the type of "transwomen" whom the Scottish Government insist are women. He's been wearing women's clothes for years, and had a female identity for 10+ years, he didn't do it only to commit this crime.

Are we yet allowed to address the fact that there is a very clear pattern which has emerged: that men who cross-dress are a subcategory of men likely to commit sex crimes when there is an opportunity presented to them. Hence we absolutely should not give additional opportunities to offend to men who cross dress?

Schrödinger's transwoman.

I'm not sure when the trans identity gets negated - is it only at conviction? Or only when politically inconvenient?

It's weird isn't it, you've got the well documented prison onset gender dysphoria, is this the first prison onset detrans?

I'm willing to accept that men who cross dress and say they should be considered to be women might be on a spectrum of danger ranging from "gets pleasure from forcing other people's participation in their fetish" and "enjoys transgressing women's boundaries and being in spaces women don't expect him to be" at the milder end, and stretches to "abduction and sexual assault of primary school girls while dressed as a woman", or in the case of Challenor Senior "rape and torture of 10 year old girl in a loft torture den while dressed as a baby girl".

But even the milder end of that spectrum is not a motivation that women and girls should have to indulge under threat of a hate crime conviction or being socially ostracised as a bigot.

So true. This makes me feel utterly sick. Poor wee girl, thinking of her tonight.

My thoughts are with the wee lass. She showed unbelievable bravery and presence of mind despite undergoing a despicable and prolonged attack.

My thoughts are with her. Only her.

I would like to pass comment on the sorry excuse for a human who did this but I dare not.

I would no doubt be classed as hateful, terfy or a bigot.

Just because I want women and girls to feel safe. To be safe. And to be able to say what we see without fear of reprisals.

Gaun yersel Nicola. The damage you and your government have done for us here cannot be measured.

As for the mealiemouthed reporting to minimise the hurty feels? No words.

Back to rapistgender again. Or something

x.com/wingsscotland/status/1714699805518135526?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

I’m seriously doubting this skunk of a man had any plans to ever let that poor child go. Thank goodness she was resourceful enough to call for help, I shudder to think of how far Miller might have gone.

This was also discussed in the judgement, Mavis.

''. In terms, however, of the ending of the abduction, you told the reporter that you “went into business mode trying to think of a solution”, and that you needed time to formulate your “plan”. Thankfully your victim took that matter out of your hands, by way of her call to the emergency services. In the risk assessment report the author posits a future risk scenario in similar circumstances. The author expresses the view that while she doubted that fatal harm would be your initial intent, this could become a more likely occurrence with a prolonged abduction in circumstances in which the child in such a future scenario, just as in the present case, would be readily able to identify you in the event of her being released or making an escape.'

Absolutely predictable response. Always the victim’s fault, never the predator.