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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SWP

58 replies

WeAreOnTheRoadToNowhere · 12/10/2023 12:03

A friend has been a member of the SWP for many years. Works in further education
He believes himself to be very moral. We have clashed badly over recent years over his TWAW stance. Ended badly with him calling me a bigot and me calling him a misogynist
We still come across each other due to mutual friends
I've been trying to find background on the SWP but, so far, apart from snippets it's all just their own literature which still reads as though they are fighting for the working class
I know there was a big split after rape/sexual assault accusations. According to twitter/X the leaders are very wealthy
Does anyone have information or can point me in the right direction please
This is just me being interested not for arguing. He has invested too much money and time to ever recognise any wrong within the party

OP posts:
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IwantToRetire · 12/10/2023 18:37

They have their own printing press, which is why they do others people's posters and newspapers.

Never knew that. How new Labour. Implement capitalist methods to pay for your "socialism".

He has invested too much money and time to ever recognise any wrong within the party

Quite honestly OP, I wouldn't put to much intellectual energy into trying to understand them.

Just ask him so show what if anything they have achieved?

Or even more bluntly, whether despite all of their political rhetoric, it is just a male bonding exercise and desire to have their photo taken by local papers.

(All the demos in my area are gate crashed by SWP and then all that happens is a photo appears in the local press with the same men looking really proud of themselves as they raise their clenched fists. Purile.)

PorcelinaV · 12/10/2023 18:39

That front cover of the Socialist Worker looks very close to glorification of terrorism.

Heliotroper · 12/10/2023 18:56

Their habit of encouraging people to smash things has has always been a bit daft. How are readers in the UK meant to smash the Israeli state?

Heliotroper · 12/10/2023 19:00

And if it were by some miracle actually smashed by SW readers then Hamas would be unopposed.

ArabellaScott · 12/10/2023 19:14

Heliotroper · 12/10/2023 18:56

Their habit of encouraging people to smash things has has always been a bit daft. How are readers in the UK meant to smash the Israeli state?

Thank you for putting it in perspective. I had found it quite alarming. Very violent and macho. Why 'smash' everything?

JustSpeculation · 12/10/2023 19:23

Heliotroper · 12/10/2023 18:56

Their habit of encouraging people to smash things has has always been a bit daft. How are readers in the UK meant to smash the Israeli state?

A few well placed and incisive slogans, and down it comes.

Abhannmor · 12/10/2023 19:45

JustSpeculation · 12/10/2023 19:23

A few well placed and incisive slogans, and down it comes.

Your analysis is weak , comrade , it will collapse under the weight of its own contradictions innit.

Paul Foot was a damn good writer though. Red Shelley is a great read. And was the backbone of Private Eye for years. I doubt there are any serious thinkers in the party now. It always had a leftwing rugby club feel about it.

mumsandaunties · 12/10/2023 20:31

spookehtooth · 12/10/2023 14:55

My experience is that they hijack many movements to promote themselves.

I have friends who are members, that I generally like, but I dislike the movement and their hijacking of others, especially ones I'm part of where I see how divisive the presence of their logo and distribution of papers or leaflets can be. At some of our events people have taken their placards for our events, with messages that are generally quite good, and ripped off their logo so they're not promoting them. Some who are more confident engaging with other people have worked to identify people who've taken them unwittingly and suggested they do the same

Edited

This leaflet was being given out near the LWS Liverpool event on Sunday. It made me absolutely furious....how dare they use those women's names in this way.

SWP
RosaLeominster · 12/10/2023 20:32

I was member back in the 90s, it was cult like in many ways and consumed your life. Even then they were sexist, they really didn't like feminism and calling women feminists' was used as an insult. I got fed up with the hypocrisy, men who claimed to be champions of women's rights not doing their share of housework (my ex). There was always a lot of middle class people in positions of authority and I felt they wanted working class people to take the risks. I'm really uneasy about the role we played in certain disputes, ramping things up filled with millenarian fervour but with nothing to lose.

Heliotroper · 12/10/2023 20:46

I recall they used to rant a lot about ' bourgeois feminists'

RosaLeominster · 12/10/2023 20:57

Heliotroper oh yes!

Signalbox · 12/10/2023 21:06

They always attempt to take over various causes to recruit and control the narrative (especially those causes that are popular amongst the youth who are easier to manipulate). This is why you always see their placards en masse at demos. They are definitely a cult-like organisation.

Also this...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-workers-party-rape-kangaroo-court

Socialist Workers Party leadership under fire over rape kangaroo court

Woman says she was asked about her sexual past branded a slut by senior party members after she accused one of rape

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-workers-party-rape-kangaroo-court

IwantToRetire · 13/10/2023 00:38

I dont think this was the SWP but part of the same mentality. During the time of Troops Out (probably before some posters were born) there was an effort to recruit 3 respectable young women (and seemed to think they would be found in Women's Liberation groups).

The were to take part in a demonstration which would disrupt the Trooping of the Colour. Some young impressionable feminists felt they owed a duty to help demonstrate against english colonial occupation of Northern Ireland, but they were persuaded not to volunteer just because of the danger of dashing in among the horses (ie intended as politics of spectacle - ie good front page images for the papers).

Years later if was revealed that in fact Troops Out had been infiltrated by an undercover cop who became quite senior in the organisation.

There was much speculation as to whether the attempt to recruit women to do this, was in fact a black ops gambit, with the intention that had the women been hurt it would have a negative impact on Troops Out.

Not saying that the SWP would ever go that far (just dillitante posh boys), but for instance engineering a situation that leads to kettling, is one way of getting a response to police being heavy handed.

Similar of course to the tactics used at the Sarah Evarard Memorial event which had been peaceful and respectful in line with family and organisers wishes for most of the day, ie no political chants or leafleting. That is until a small group, supported by the SWP, arrived in the evening with load hailers and political banners, encouraging those attending to converge onto a smaller and smaller space. The police acted to stop some sort of crush which including asking those with loud hailers to "move along". Which they didn't do, so were then open to being arrested leading to the very useful picture of a woman being "man handled" by the police.

And hey presto, next day all the headline were about the police and the then new public order bill, and nothing about Sarah Everard.

Unfortunately there is always a steady stream of patsy, whether by name or nature who get caught up in this manipulation of the situation.

RethinkingLife · 13/10/2023 03:18

I got fed up with the hypocrisy, men who claimed to be champions of women's rights not doing their share of housework (my ex). There was always a lot of middle class people in positions of authority and I felt they wanted working class people to take the risks.

Exactly my memory of everyone I've known who active in SWP.

LetsResearch · 13/10/2023 03:27

ArabellaScott · 12/10/2023 12:35

"You should blame Israel not Hamas"

https://twitter.com/socialistworker/status/1712016412468785402

'The new Socialist Worker is out now. Our front page reads "Smash Israeli terror state"Victory to Palestine'

https://twitter.com/socialistworker/status/1711759075761893830

That's disgusting. They're celebrating the fact that hundreds of Israelis were murdered, raped and kidnapped at the weekend by Hamas terrorists. They're victim blaming. The trans issue is a non-issue compared to this!

Heliotroper · 13/10/2023 06:28

There was always a lot of middle class people in positions of authority

The transproleteriat

Heliotroper · 13/10/2023 06:38

The Socialist Worker headline says 'Victory to Palestine'

But what would a victory for Palestine look like right now with Hamas the dominant force? We all know the answer to that.

The SWP live in dream world where the oppressed will rise up against their oppressors, smash their state and all will be good. If it is not so good then the oppressed are not to blame.

Even the horrific events in Israel have not shaken them out of it.

fromorbit · 13/10/2023 07:55

Another case of dodgy SWP crime strange how so many they always turn out to be sex criminals.

Socialist Workers Party member Simon Murch, who signed a statement to ‘Stand with trans students and workers at Sussex university’ during protests against Kathleen Stock, was found guilty of raping a 13 year old girl in September 202.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-66731310

Murch is a 54-year-old primary school teacher, SWP Executive Committee member and was joint regional secretary for Sheffield NEU (National Education Union), who sacked him from duties.

SWP’s statement in support of the protests against Kathleen Stock with his name and union role. https://socialistworker.co.uk/press-releases/stand-with-trans-students-sussex/

Great summary of the cult like tendencies of the SWP:
https://libcom.org/article/understanding-left-cults-swp-sp-spiked-wrp-reading-list

Article on SWP's long standing anti-woman position.

SWP and women: Countless zigs and zags over women’s oppression
https://archive.vn/jY9u4

Laurie Penny [long before she discovered that she wasn't a woman]

What does the SWP's way of dealing with sex assault allegations tell us about the left?When it comes to sexual violence, why should progressive organisations be held to different standards?
https://archive.vn/k1Rgy

Stand with trans students and workers at Sussex university - Socialist Worker

The right is targeting trans people—and it’s our job as socialists to stand with the oppressed. The Tory government ditched plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) last September despite the consultation showing overwhelming support for change...

https://socialistworker.co.uk/press-releases/stand-with-trans-students-sussex

Heliotroper · 13/10/2023 08:36

"The right is targeting trans people—and it’s our job as socialists to stand with the oppressed."

This is the common theme - identify the oppressed, stand with them and never criticize anything that anyone in that group does.

Not every situation fits nearly into oppressor/oppressed dynamic

They ignore women who who are losing out and they ignore Israelis who are being slaughtered.

IcakethereforeIam · 13/10/2023 08:56

I wish I could remember where I'd seen it, but there was an article a few months ago. There was a bit in it a young person, female I think, who'd been talked into direct action by one of the older leaders of Extinction Rebellion, or some such. Glueing themselves to a road or building. Now left with a criminal record and the person who talked them into it? Nowhere to be seen. Useful idiots and cannon fodder.

IwantToRetire · 13/10/2023 16:33

Nowhere to be seen. Useful idiots and cannon fodder.

Just to say (and revealing a bit about myself - blush) I started watching the 3rd series of Cobra as in a sort of dumbed down tv way it has included contemporary issues (excluding trans ideology).

And the main plot line at the moment is a sort of XR movement and guess what, the PM's daughter in an attempt to say I am not part of the establishment is duped into taking part in an action that doesn't end well.

But that's part of the media hypocrasy, many of them know, probably from being in the SWP, the type of contrived confrontations etc.. But they are only too happy to focus on one posh boy all in black and masked defacing a statue of Winston Churchill (or some other national treasure) rather than report what the demo was meant to be about.

And no doubt tomorrows demonstration will have lots of well meaning people talking about the 2 state solution, peace and reconciliation, but the media will find an isolated example of someone with placard inciting hatred against Jewish people.

And not that they will be SWP, but it is this type of counter productive behaviour by the SWP over decades that have made most demos a meaningless ritual.

And of course, Tony Blair ignoring over a million people prior to the invasion of Iraq.

Also was assumed to see the self righteous millionaire who had been funding Stop Oil (or maybe it was another one) saying (boo hoo) the Government didn't pay any attention to the demos, so I am going to stop funding them. Instead I am going to finance Labour so as to influence them (hurrah for democracy).

Surely even in this clueless age nobody thinks 1 or 2 demos will change politicians minds.

What a numpty!

IwantToRetire · 13/10/2023 16:36

Another case of dodgy SWP crime strange how so many they always turn out to be sex criminals.

And despite what psychiatrists and others might go on about, sex crimes against women are because male entitlement and disrespect of women means men think there is no issue.

Thanks for this grim round up.

Abhannmor · 13/10/2023 17:01

IwantToRetire · 13/10/2023 16:33

Nowhere to be seen. Useful idiots and cannon fodder.

Just to say (and revealing a bit about myself - blush) I started watching the 3rd series of Cobra as in a sort of dumbed down tv way it has included contemporary issues (excluding trans ideology).

And the main plot line at the moment is a sort of XR movement and guess what, the PM's daughter in an attempt to say I am not part of the establishment is duped into taking part in an action that doesn't end well.

But that's part of the media hypocrasy, many of them know, probably from being in the SWP, the type of contrived confrontations etc.. But they are only too happy to focus on one posh boy all in black and masked defacing a statue of Winston Churchill (or some other national treasure) rather than report what the demo was meant to be about.

And no doubt tomorrows demonstration will have lots of well meaning people talking about the 2 state solution, peace and reconciliation, but the media will find an isolated example of someone with placard inciting hatred against Jewish people.

And not that they will be SWP, but it is this type of counter productive behaviour by the SWP over decades that have made most demos a meaningless ritual.

And of course, Tony Blair ignoring over a million people prior to the invasion of Iraq.

Also was assumed to see the self righteous millionaire who had been funding Stop Oil (or maybe it was another one) saying (boo hoo) the Government didn't pay any attention to the demos, so I am going to stop funding them. Instead I am going to finance Labour so as to influence them (hurrah for democracy).

Surely even in this clueless age nobody thinks 1 or 2 demos will change politicians minds.

What a numpty!

Ha your post took me back 40 odd years !
We were on a CND march and a guy with a TV camera started tracking us. Hey we might be on the news tonight I said. No , said an old veteran, you don't have a pink Mohican. And so it came to pass that we were not on telly.

WeAreOnTheRoadToNowhere · 13/10/2023 17:18

It does feel cult like. Friend has to give a significant amount of £ each month for the privilege of being a member and being allowed to stand on street corners selling the paper
It doesn't seem to allow any difference of opinion.
Does anyone know where the money goes?

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 13/10/2023 17:51

They dont seem to be registered as a company, a charity or a cooperative.

Although they could just have a legal identity called the Corner Shop or the Printing Press.