SWP

[WeAreOnTheRoadToNowhere]

A friend has been a member of the SWP for many years. Works in further education
He believes himself to be very moral. We have clashed badly over recent years over his TWAW stance. Ended badly with him calling me a bigot and me calling him a misogynist
We still come across each other due to mutual friends
I've been trying to find background on the SWP but, so far, apart from snippets it's all just their own literature which still reads as though they are fighting for the working class
I know there was a big split after rape/sexual assault accusations. According to twitter/X the leaders are very wealthy
Does anyone have information or can point me in the right direction please
This is just me being interested not for arguing. He has invested too much money and time to ever recognise any wrong within the party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)#Internal_crisis_in_2013%E2%80%932014_over_allegations_of_rape

Seems a good place to start!

Aren't many of the trans rights placards wielded at events like SFW printed by SWP?

Possibly. This is one of theirs:

https://socialistworker.co.uk/product/trans-rights-now-a3-poster/

Weren't they also just celebrating the Hamas atrocities?

I'll have a read thanks
I think it was FILIA where the behaved really badly with shouting and offensive posters outside
Was it that one where the organisers sent an open letter to the SWP?

"You should blame Israel not Hamas"

https://twitter.com/socialistworker/status/1712016412468785402

'The new Socialist Worker is out now. Our front page reads "Smash Israeli terror state"Victory to Palestine'

https://twitter.com/socialistworker/status/1711759075761893830

A lot of people left after the Comrade Delta scandal.

They have always done a lot of printing for other groups as they have their own facilities.

"You should blame Israel not Hamas"

People are responsible for their own actions.

The "they made us so it" argument is infantile at the best of times, in this case it just fuels a spiral of violence. It should clearly be possible to believe people are victims without endorsing the idea that victims can unleash any kind of revenge they feel like.

Hi all interesting post OP. I was an SWP member for along time left after Tony Cliff died as seemed to lose their way somewhat, along with Mark Steel and others. Knew who was on discipline committee at time delta thing blew up. As far as i was aware the victim female student was asked if she wanted to go to police but she declined.

SWP believe that our sexuality is moulded by capitalism, so Marxist don't know how human sexuality would evolve in utopia. This i think may have clouded their analysis of Delta’s conduct that is not within wider societies cultural norms.

On Trans, they believe that trans rights are an issue for the working class, I still read their publications, and have not read anywhere that their line is trans women are real women. I doubt that they would adopt that.

They are pro Palestine, but do not support terrorism, as they believe that the working class is the route to revolution and social equality for all.

an example of this was they supported the aims of the IRA (for a united Ireland) but not acts of terrorism as a method

So i doubt they support Hamas without criticism of the horrors now being committed

There has always been members who stray from the party line and say dumb things. So I would be asking your colleague to show you any article his sect/cult has produced with the Marxist theory that trans women are real women.

Of course someone here might surprise me and i have it all wrong.

I don't recall the name of Allison Bailey's SWP-associated roommate who reported her phone conversations and displayed an interesting attitude towards collegiality.

Belatedly, I recalled it's David Renton (he had something to say in re: Comrade Delta which contrasts in an interesting manner wrt his behaviour concerning Allison Bailey): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Renton

On Trans, they believe that trans rights are an issue for the working class, I still read their publications, and have not read anywhere that their line is trans women are real women. I doubt that they would adopt that.

It took me roughly five seconds to find this:

"The Socialist Workers Party (SWP) stands with the oppressed and unequivocally says, “Trans women are women,” and, “Trans men are men.” Trans people have the right to organise against their oppression and the right to protest against it. We stood in solidarity with the trans students and workers at the University of Sussex who were rightly outraged by Kathleen Stock’s views."

https://socialistworker.co.uk/press-releases/swp-response-to-letter-from-womans-place-uk/

@RoyalCorgi bloody hell thanks for that glad i left when i did

By contrast the Communists take quite a different line...

https://www.communistparty.org.uk/the-gender-recognition-bill-and-equality-law/

@Namechange99forthis Yes i know of this thanks

I think you're well out of it.

My experience is that they hijack many movements to promote themselves.

I have friends who are members, that I generally like, but I dislike the movement and their hijacking of others, especially ones I'm part of where I see how divisive the presence of their logo and distribution of papers or leaflets can be. At some of our events people have taken their placards for our events, with messages that are generally quite good, and ripped off their logo so they're not promoting them. Some who are more confident engaging with other people have worked to identify people who've taken them unwittingly and suggested they do the same

The SWP have always had the rent a mob (or uninvited mob) in their ranks. I rewatched life of Brian a few tears ago, themes of the absurd and zealot. The scene with the peoples popular front of Judaea and the Judea peoples popular front (splitters) had me dying laughing, aimed at the SWP, as was the bit about a man wanting to be a woman and have babies, the front agreed in the end that she had in principal the right to have babies…. A bit pertinent really.

Quick trawl of a series of posts over the years about the SWP from the blog Harry's Place . Enjoy the walk down wackadoodle lane!

There are plenty of other negatives about the SWP.

They helped harass gender crit women on multiple occasions. See here:
https://womansplaceuk.org/2021/10/30/open-letter-swp-abusive-protest/

The SWP are also pro-Imperialist. British trade unions have united in support of Ukraine via the Trade Union Congress since Russia's latest invasion in the last few years. SWP agitators have constantly tried to undermine this position their latest attempt was trying to stop a pro-Ukraine motion at congress from passing. Of course they failed. This is part of long history of being pro authoritarian militarist regimes.

https://labourlist.org/2023/09/tuc-congress-ukraine-solidarity-motion-secures-union-backing/

Also worthy of note it is run by a bunch of toffs one leader Alex Callinicos, is grandson of the 2nd Lord Acton, was educated at a top private school and another senior leader, Charlie Kimber, is the Old Etonian son of a baronet. The sex scandal involved another public school attendee. Classic cover up.

Posh blokes can be decent people of course however I am rather suspicious of revolutionary socialist movements run by ultra posh academics who centralise all power on themselves and retain it for decades as in the case of the swp. British public schools were designed to churn out charming elitist men who aim to secure themselves power in whatever institution they find themselves - business, conservative, left, or liberal politics, academia, the church, the sphere doesn't matter and the first people who get manipulated and sidelined if they are a problem are usually women, especially working class ones.

Are they perhaps over compensating @Karensalright ? I was close to some SWP members in the 80s , lovely people for the most part. But they were a bit 'straight' . They seemed to regard feminism as a bourgeois deviation. And Tony Cliff previously opined that homosexuality was caused by the distortions and pressures of capitalism. Or something.

A mate of mine went to a SWP open meeting and raised this point. He was reassured that the policy had been updated. Afterwards they all repaired to the pub and asked him to join them. Many pints later he found himself at a house party thinking ' how odd ; there's no women'. Belatedly , through the fog of alcohol , he realised one of the guys was hitting on him. They had assumed his orientation because he raised the issue of gay rights - but he styled his way out of it.

On the terrorism thing - they were always opposed to it. In fact Paul Foot , a leading member , had written an essay - Why Terrorism is Always Wrong. A lot of members left or were expelled back then and joined a group called Big Flame which was set up mainly by feminists, including Sheila Rowbotham iirc. I can't imagine the SW crowd I knew accepting TWAW ....but water wears away a stone.

" Posh blokes can be decent people of course however I am rather suspicious of revolutionary socialist movements run by ultra posh academics who centralise all power on themselves and retain it for decades as in the case of the swp"

And profess to be the voice of the working class.

My experience is that they hijack many movements to promote themselves.

On one level it is almost irrelevant what they say they believe or why they might do x, y or z.

Apart from the Comrade Delta disgrace their influence is that they have managed to alienate any number of people from joining demonstrations.

You turn up to a demo about an issue organised by a named group, but when you get there every placard is from the SWP implying they are the organisers of the demo.

I dont know where they get the money because there are just hundreds. There always used to be a joke that if you wanted your own placard you just needed a piece of A3 paper and some sellotape. Arrive at demo, take an SWP placard and tape your own message over theirs.

They never have anything to say. Their whole objective is to be on the platform, get photos of them giving the clenched fits salute, and then go to the pub for a pint.

And yes they are quite good at group shouting.

Am I not being over the top but I know so many who just dont bother going to demos because afterwards the most the media will do is post photos, and all of them will be showing SWP placards.

Sisters Uncut are a sort of female equivilant parasitic political group.

@IwantToRetire yea all that sounds familiar, unfortunately. Their financing gives them a leg up unless you've suitably deep pockets and/or a good supply of creative talent to dampen their effects

"I dont know where they get the money because there are just hundreds"

They have their own printing plant, which is why they do so many other people's too. It

"I dont know where they get the money because there are just hundreds"

They have their own printing press, which is why they do others people's posters and newspapers.