How to lose friends and alienate people? Be openly GC

[ProfessorFlitwick]

I have recently "come out" as GC to my friends, and I am sad by some of their responses. It turns out that for some of them, me thinking a woman is a biological female is an insurmountable hurdle to our friendship. I'm sad to see women who I know are intelligent just repeating the gender ideology dogma without being open to applying any critical thought to it.

Atheists and theists can respectfully debate the existence of God, and still be friends. They understand they are debating the wider concept of God, and not attacking each other personally or denying the other person's right to hold their view. GI supporters seem incapable of comprehending this way of debating something, any form of discussion is seen as a direct "attack" on the "existence of trans people" and must be immediately shut down. When I think of the types of people in history who try to silence or intimidate people who disagree with them, it doesn't bring up a great bunch of people.

Does anyone else want to vent about their experiences of navigating (or losing) friendships with GI supporters?

Honestly I do wonder why you'd wantbto keep friends who are bigoted and unreflective. My friends mostly are GC. Some are on the fence and I can see think I'm a bit unhinged at times but they accept the evidence for what it is. I am not sure I'd want to stay friends if they were hostile to women's rights.

@literalviolence and @ProfessorFlitwick How old are your friends? Apart from one who has an obviously lesbian non binary child mine are all GC.
We’re mid 50s and left wing.

This.

If they don't support women they are worthless as friends, you're lucky you found out their true nature to be honest.

There is a definite dance sounding each other out before we rant through.
Work is another matter. Completely
captured. I have a dinosaur mug and no pronouns in my name. I’ve been sidelined as a nasty old bigot.

It happened to me too earlier this year, wasn't great at the time but it hasn't stopped me.
Lots of people did stick by me though and I've made new friends and met loads more people by going to events when I can, I'm meeting a woman from my small town for coffee next week and a long term online friend at LWS in November, plus I have a Terven night out next month.
I won't wheesht.

We are all 31 and left wing (group of 10, we met in school), three are firmly GI and don't have children; two can see both sides (one of them is pregnant and the other of muslim background) the rest are conveniently silent on the matter! We've been close friends for half our lives, I'd like it if we could respect each other's views and find common ground.

Ah, you are the same age as my son. His uni friends group are all fully stonewalled as it were. There will be others who agree with you, but it will be hard for now as the prevailing culture around them says you are akin to a racist. None of them want to be associated with that.

Well done for talking and letting them know that there is another reasonable point of view.

Good luck OP. It is a tough time. Because I suspect as life experiences build each of your friends will develop their thoughts around this. It is hard to navigate it.

Three out of ten sounds about right. The rest is preference falsification.

It came up at my book group a couple of years ago, and the two 40 something women, who both work in scientific fields, one in a hospital lab, were both totally TWAW.
Other people in the group didn’t say much at the time but told me after they agreed with me.
I don’t see the original 2 any more but they were both rather overbearing types anyway.

Sorry, by 'about right' I mean I think that reflects roughly the proportion of the population in terms of views. A loud minority. One brave woman. Two 'both sides' and the rest silent.

It’s an age thing OP - most women my age 50+ are GC. Your friends will be too by the time they’re our age.

I was going to say the same. I’m 50+ and my circle is overwhelmingly GC.

Even the ones who said they would never describe themselves as political or feminists are so annoyed about the safeguarding aspect, it’s stirred up their gut feelings that they’d never really thought about before.

I really hope so! Having a child definitely changed my perspective on the topic. Nothing gets on my tits like being referred to as a "chest feeding parent" instead of a "breast feeding mother" - if you'll pardon the pun!

I don’t have children and am as GC as they come. I honestly think people must be a bit incurious if they can only see the issues that affect you directly.

In my experience, the loudest “TWAW” people that are the most frightened of being dubbed stupid or “not cool” - they are frightened in case the emperor is wearing clothes and they are just too uncool to see them.

My circle, pretty small, is resolutely GC. My GF is as well, but I'm minded not to overwhelm conversations because it's become a preoccupation of mine, for others like my GF and friends, it's a calm settled opinion.

I'm the one animated and opinionated. And once I start, I often can't stop.

Interestingly though, talk to people about it, from GC to "on the fence", and opinions flood out from them, other than live and let live, nothing supportive of TWAW.

My work is somewhat different. I choose my words very carefully at therapy conferences or seminars, I raise it only with clients I've tentatively test the water with.

I also don't bring it up with my GFs extended family, one sister is in late 60s and Corbynista, I'm not going to go there, and a large clutch of 30 somethings nieces and nephews, one at least we suspect is TWAW.

But they're not my family, see them infrequently, and conversation never strays on to politics.

Two American online friends in my hobby have been ditched after deep disagreement on views became apparent.

I'll take that over OPs awful personal experience.

Was actually going to ask something similar on the Liverpool Let Women Speak thread but probably better here.

A lot of acquaintances and people I have a lot of time for are now changing their profiles to progress flags and promoting protests against 'terf and neo-Nazi' Posie Parker. Perhaps because this time it is very close to home, I'm actually finding it very upsetting.

It's a slur and it's nonsense, but to so much as gently question this would have repercussions for me. I want to say - she's not a neo-Nazi for God's sake! It's called Let Women Speak and women speak and that's bloody all. Why on earth should that not be allowed?

I’m not openly GC to all, but am to some. Most are with me. One of my best friends posts about trans rights a lot. She also posts about womens rights a lot. I don’t see how she doesn’t see the connection with one stamping all over the other. I don’t bring it up as don’t want an argument, we’ve been good mates for 20 years. But it’s normal to disagree and we don’t need arguments or debates but if she ever asked me straight out I would tell her.

I think you can be open to the GC debate, whilst still disliking transphobia. I am that person. Some of the posts on here are borderline transphobic disguised as GC.

Slightly older than you and most university friends know its not as simple as TWAW due to the actions of a TW when we were all at university together.

Oh and I'm 50+

The problem is the confusion around the language. Many people still think TW were born female (hence the woman in the name) so of course you are hateful to deny them women's toilets etc.

They don't realise that TW only have to say magical words and that there isn't any counselling or medication first etc.

They don't realise that children are getting puberty blockers and mastectomies (medicalised) but middle aged men don't do anything really. Thry do not question why that is.

Many people don't believe a man, a rapist, would ever be put in a womans prison with access to the other women. It wouldn't happen.

My DD is 28. She is fully on board TWAW because school taught it, she went to college and they taught it. Mum is stupid because she was never taught it and therefore knows nothing (bit like youngsters thinking the older generation don't understand the Internet). She is very angry with me because I don't want men next to me when I have knickers around my ankles, nor do I want it for other women.

You need to see where their blinkered spot is and gently illuminate that part. I've found most think TW were born female so they are transing away.

One person’s GC is another’s transphobia.

which ones and why do you think they're transphobic?

50s and my friends are almost divided between GC and those with trans-identifying children, 70-30. Those whose first exposure to gender ideology was via their child are very vocally TWAW, which is understandable.

There are two exceptions who have trans-id children but remain GC themselves.

I lost some friends over it but made new ones, and otherwise we avoid the subject.