Jeremy Vine 4/10/

[TheDogthatDug]

Was anyone watching them debate the ban on transwomen on women's wards? They had a transwoman, Kimberley, phone in. Kimberley is a trans support worker type thing. They agreed with the ban and also said that most of the transwomen they encounter are cross dressing men. Heather, the trans spokesperson of course denied this. I just thought it was interesting to hear.

The emperor has no clothes!

Well done to Kimberley though, that’s brave

I watched the debate on the Storm Huntley segment.

Riddled with misinformation, like saying there'd been no reported trouble with transwomen on female wards. What about the widely reported rape that was denied by the NHS for over a year? Nothing on the 6500 sexual assaults women face in hospital a year and, zero definition of 'transwoman'.:

It just seemed to mean, 'a special kind of unreproachable person'. How can you debate what you are not defining? The viewers would have had no idea what was really being asked of women and if the presenters were referring to someone who'd had full surgery, or not.

There was a brilliant strident female caller who was having none of it and quite rightly saying the handmaidens do not speak for all women. Brava that lady.

I was going to start a thread on this as a friend who watches this show every now and again to find out what "the general public" is thinking / saying rang me in a rage.

From her rant I understand that:

the issue was about preserving women's rights to single sex. Did they have a speaker to represent women's rights? No

Did they have a representative for trans women. Yes

Usual patronising misogynistic gay man mansplaining on panel, talking over the woman panelists trying to talk about women's right to their spaces.

Gay man on panel went on and on about how all the women he knew didn't think trans women should be excluded.

But her main worry was / is that in terms of numbers calling in the vast majority thought TW should NOT be excluded (2 health workers called in saying no issue)

Which left her feeling however much we might know other women (and some men) who share concerns about the erasurer of women's rights (one woman rang in to say its not as though they even asked us what we thought abouat TW being in women's wards) that if this segment of the show is reflective of the public than women only services just dont figure in their thinking.

And as the gay male panelist was only happy to point out, there is no issue this is just about Tories creating a "woke" war that doesn't exist.

So seems like we all need to do more outreach.

Just checked on line comments and again most think this isn't an issue.

https://www.facebook.com/JeremyVineOn5/posts/pfbid02oPWf48PdoWh7hZ71jVz4ixNip8SEpnLzcR2WQRfuBgQCXhAuw8fiV1vr7FRtCEGrl?locale=en_GB

https://twitter.com/JeremyVineOn5/status/1709504884675100812

Sorry OP, dont mean to hijack your thread, but am generally very concerned that despite a few comments here and there, and some Tories, that the issue of women's sex based rights just doesn't seem to have filtered through to the public at large.

I thought the best comment was ‘Here we go again the Vine show turning into a slagging match’. Sums the man and his programme up.

I think the reason that most people don't think its a problem is a misunderstanding of terminology. Recent research shows most people think the term 'transwoman' means a woman identifying as trans, not a male.
I did see someone suggest we replace 'trans' with 'pretend' to make it clearer...'pretendwoman' anyone?

There’s another thread at the moment saying how poorly understood the terminology is understood eg many think trans women are born female. So if the programme lacked clarity it would be easy to see why many don’t see an issue

Cross post!

oops wrong thread

As I understand it, as I heard it second hand, some of it was quite explicit. ie Isla Blair was discussed, and as said up thread a caller said that too many cross dressers were hiding behind the trans umbrella.

I know the JV show is totally captured but I think it is more to do with not just men but many women thinking women's rights are not important.

ie the show itself not bothering to have a speaker on behalf of women's rights, but having a speaker for women's rights.

And all those who have swalled the Stonewall message that the T is just the same as LGB, and despite what they might think in private, they are all on message.

And if not, shouted over by a self righteous gay man, telling women what women should think.

I tuned it to watch at 9.15, saw LOJ was on it and promptly turned it over. The trans discussions have never been good. Jeremy does his 'I don't understand' act, Owen is an idiot and the callers are usually a man and regular Kimberley.

I did too! I'm a stay at home mum, and i also turn off as soon as Owen Jones is on it. I did that today, I just can't bear it. I also turn off when Myleen Klass is on it, similar reason, after she went on about the importance of pronouns and making sure her children understood it, also writing about pronouns in her stupid book.

@LondonLass91 Yes same! I remember that episode where she lectured about pronouns. I rolled my eyes and turned it over.

And don't get me started on Storm handmaiden Huntley and her insistence that everyone needs to call Sam Smith 'they". I actually vomit internally when she wades into any trans debates, women, I cannot forgive.

I watched and was glad the transwoman called in. It was depressing how many callers said it wasn't an issue.

Although I must stress that on most other issues I admire Storm..

Gay man on panel went on and on about how all the women he knew didn't think trans women should be excluded

Well given the insistence that transwomen are women, are these women that he knows actual adult human females or males who say they are women.

*LondonLass91

And don't get me started on Storm handmaiden Huntley and her insistence that everyone needs to call Sam Smith 'they". I actually vomit internally when she wades into any trans debates, women, I cannot forgive*

I always wonder how that works. “They” is usually used if you are referring to someone who isn’t present in the conversation

Someone saying we should call people “They” always confuses me.
If I see Sam Smith walking on the other side of the road to get his attention do I shout out “THEY, THEY, Can I get your autograph”

Not that I would recognise Sam Smith. Or want his autograph. I actually have no real clue who he is beyond a singer I think. I have face blindness and have difficulty recognising most people out of context

Imagine if there was something that directly affected men’s rights, putting their safety, dignity, privacy, healthcare, sporting achievements - and even the language that defines them - under threat. Owen is sitting at home watching tv and gets to see a woman, with no skin in the game, in a discussion panel explaining why men’s rights are NOT being affected and saying the men she knows don’t mind anyway. I’m sure he’d be thinking wait a minute, shouldn’t we be interviewing a man as well, in order to have a balanced discussion?

Men do not get to tell women about their rights and whether or not they’re at risk. Only women can decide if their rights are at risk. And those women who couldn’t care less because it doesn’t affect them personally… well, that’s lovely for them, but they don’t get to throw other women under the bus.

This exclusion of women from a discussion that affects them is just same old, same old. Nobody asked women if we minded our sex category being redefined to include male people with gender confusion. Nobody asked us. We were just expected to accept it because everyone knows women are kind and nurturing and don’t make a fuss.

We should all write to Storm, she's painfully kind and seemingly naive.

Have had another briefing from my ranting friend.

And as I am sure others have seen, she said it was painful the way the gay man was allowed to talk over women, both the panelist and Storm herself.

I am not surprised that gay man can be as arrogantly sexist as heterosexual men, but somehow because they are gay they are given a free pass to mansplain.

Which led me to having another thought, if the programme thinks it is being so progressive in having gay men on the panel, why dont they ask someone from LGB Alliance?

Now let me think ... why would that be?

The media is such a huge barricade in terms of women getting their views acroos to other members of the public.

Another thing that Andy was refuting. So called transwomen are sadly more of a threat to women because we know prison statistics. 45% of transwomen in prison are there for sexual offences, more than twice the percentage in the male prison population for similar offences.

I think this is partly because transwoman can now simply mean cross dressing man, which is something the male doctor caller in the show I don't think considered. Perhaps post op trans persons don't actually fall into this nasty statistic, but we'll never know as they now can't be distinguished from the other.

Anyway, we have all this inconvenient information on record and sadly there was no expert to convey all of this, and it was just all conjecture and guff.

If programmes are going to cover this topic, can they please have an actual women's rights campaigner on the panel who has all this knowledge at their fingertips, otherwise it's just fluff.

I think the vast majority of trans people are as pissed off with the militant wing as many women are.

@DisforDarkChocolate Then they should bloody well say so.