Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Oxford has let down transgender students, vice-chancellor says

33 replies

OvaHere · 04/10/2023 01:37

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/09bf9abe-621d-11ee-977c-44b3e2b54888?shareToken=302ed8ee24e0d0eaa19691a4ec0c3781

Not the worst article on the face of it. She's right that people do have to put up with legal speech they don't like or agree with.

However I'm unimpressed with what once again seems like gaslighting women around the issue of abuse. In real life and not just online.

“This means some legal free speech will be hard for some individuals to hear. However, I am also disturbed by what I witness as an amplification of discourteous, intolerant and hateful rhetoric on social media platforms under the guise of free speech.
“I was deeply saddened to learn of the abusive and threatening language and behaviours that our trans community suffered this year. We should have done more to support them; rest assured lessons were learnt."

Whilst I'm sure this happens sometimes the far larger issue is the abuse and threats meted out to non compliant woman from trans activists. The fact that she must be aware of the abuse Kathleen Stock received yet not reference that once is quite telling.

Until the supposed adults in the room stop giving TRA's a pass for abusing women and girls and throwing massive tantrums there will continue to be problems at universities.

Oxford has let down transgender students, vice-chancellor says

Oxford’s vice-chancellor in her first oration has condemned abuse of transgender students and said that the university should have done more to support them.Professor Irene Tracey said that free

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/09bf9abe-621d-11ee-977c-44b3e2b54888?shareToken=302ed8ee24e0d0eaa19691a4ec0c3781

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 04/10/2023 01:56

“I was deeply saddened to learn of the abusive and threatening language and behaviours that our trans community suffered this year. We should have done more to support them; rest assured lessons were learnt."

I would very much like to hear her specific examples of this, with detailed evidence.

maltravers · 04/10/2023 02:44

I wonder if she was saddened by the abusive and threatening language and behaviour being dealt out to women (such as Stock) by TRAs? So mealy mouthed.

AutumnCrow · 04/10/2023 03:24

Oxford University, the supposedly finest university in the world, reduced to this unevidenced gibberish. It's embarrassing, frankly.

OhcantthInkofaname · 04/10/2023 03:30

And the abuse to those of us who are GC?

PriOn1 · 04/10/2023 04:03

Yes, I’d be interested to see any evidence. The vast majority of the abuse I’ve seen has gone in the other direction and having to hear things you don’t like is not abuse.

TheSpikySpinosaurus · 04/10/2023 04:39

AutumnCrow · 04/10/2023 01:56

“I was deeply saddened to learn of the abusive and threatening language and behaviours that our trans community suffered this year. We should have done more to support them; rest assured lessons were learnt."

I would very much like to hear her specific examples of this, with detailed evidence.

Exactly!

AlisonDonut · 04/10/2023 04:54

This is Oxford University.

Oxford.

I still can't quite get my head around it.

SD1978 · 04/10/2023 04:58

Also would like to see what the percentage of recorded, actual abuse was for both trans and GC.......I know which side I can make a pretty good guess has the more vocal, public abuse....

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/10/2023 06:59

Yet another example of how this particular group of ppl are tip toed around, humoured & pandered too while the abuse that women get which is endemic & ongoing isn’t even acknowledged

dimorphism · 04/10/2023 07:09

TRAs are MRAs. Oxford is one of the most patriarchal, discriminatory institutions in the country (and that's saying something) and is a misogynistic and hostile environment for women, particularly those who aren't full on virtue signalling handmaidens (as the vice chancellor obviously is with this evidence-light statement). It's not surprising is it really? Disappointing, yes, because they're supposed to be able to think critically, but it just shows that the misogyny is stronger than the critical thinking.

My experience is that women that rise within these misogynistic organisations are often far worse than the men - they have to sign up completely and unquestioningly to the system and its unwritten rules to get into positions of power.

Oxford is also an incredibly hostile environment if you're not wealthy and gender ideology is a luxury belief for the wealthy.

I'm totally not surprised.

Agree with all the PPs - would like to see the evidence that there was 'hate' towards trans people rather than people just disagreeing that men can be women on their say so. Or that others should be compelled in that belief. People disagreeing with you is not 'hate'

EasternStandard · 04/10/2023 07:12

AutumnCrow · 04/10/2023 03:24

Oxford University, the supposedly finest university in the world, reduced to this unevidenced gibberish. It's embarrassing, frankly.

Various things have realised how bad it is this week

I knew it was bad but this and an RCN IG post - see other thread - is just so depressing

Institutions are fighting to keep the lies

dimorphism · 04/10/2023 07:15

Oxford is also an awful employer if you have kids - really child unfriendly working practices.

dimorphism · 04/10/2023 07:21

This statement will have sent a chill into the heart not only of all the students who are GC and / or just normal women or men who believe in biology but also scientists.

It sounds very much as if Oxford will be a place where only 'right-think' proscribed from on high will be tolerated - they've decided from on high what 'cultural change is needed' already "The university appointed a full-time chief diversity officer in January and Tracey said that he and others had been creating equality, diversity and inclusion activities to “co-create and accelerate the cultural change we recognise is needed”.

Yet another example of ideologues in positions of power ignoring the government, freedom, democracy.

anyolddinosaur · 04/10/2023 07:23

IF there is real abuse and threatening behavior towards the trans community then the University has a role to play in stopping that. But if that is simply hearing things you dislike that help needs to be in the form of mental health support to develop resilience.

timetochangethering · 04/10/2023 07:29

The comments are hilarious and just about 100% GC....I haven't read one yet who agrees with the VC.

LoobiJee · 04/10/2023 07:38

“But I do ask myself why, in 2023, are only 29 per cent of our professors women? The gender gap is far from closed.”

Ooh, I wonder what possible links there could be between i) an environment where the policing and silencing of women’s speech, and the removal of women’s right to single-sex, female-only, male-free spaces when in a state of undress is considered acceptable and ii) an organisation where 70% of the senior staff are male…? That’s a tricky one.

SaffronSpice · 04/10/2023 07:44

The bat signal appears to have gone out to use this form of attack. No evidence of course

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 04/10/2023 07:48

But the thing is, if she has been shown evidence of that, then of course it’s deplorable and she is right to mention it. So I don’t mind her saying it. I don’t want any minority to be subject to hate or abuse.

But but I do mind her ignoring the fact that there’s been plenty (more) in the other direction, both specifically about GC views and more generally in the treatment of female students and staff.

dimorphism · 04/10/2023 07:52

I suspect Oxford University is only interested in the type of 'diversity' that suits the powers within it. It's window dressing so they can keep on as they are.

Real diversity, say helping clever single mothers on low incomes to get degrees (and solving the cost of childcare and housing problem that would make this impossible for most in Oxford), probably not so much.

Original poster
OvaHere · 04/10/2023 07:53

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 04/10/2023 07:48

But the thing is, if she has been shown evidence of that, then of course it’s deplorable and she is right to mention it. So I don’t mind her saying it. I don’t want any minority to be subject to hate or abuse.

But but I do mind her ignoring the fact that there’s been plenty (more) in the other direction, both specifically about GC views and more generally in the treatment of female students and staff.

Yes exactly.

OP posts:
dimorphism · 04/10/2023 07:55

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 04/10/2023 07:48

But the thing is, if she has been shown evidence of that, then of course it’s deplorable and she is right to mention it. So I don’t mind her saying it. I don’t want any minority to be subject to hate or abuse.

But but I do mind her ignoring the fact that there’s been plenty (more) in the other direction, both specifically about GC views and more generally in the treatment of female students and staff.

This is the thing. By singling out something that quite possibly hasn't happened and not mentioning things that definitely have (death threats to Kathleen Stock for example) she's picking a side.

I read the article and my main thought was wondering if according to Tracey stating 'men cannot be women' or 'women need single sex spaces' would be considered as 'hate' and 'uncivil debate'. I got the distinct impression that it would, reading this.

She's quite clearly nailed her colours to the mast of gender woo and against rationality, evidence and science here. Unless wildly mis-reported.

dimorphism · 04/10/2023 08:09

I hope some of the academics rise up against the totalitarian imposition of belief that the central powers are trying to achieve. I think some already have a little. But it's a chilling McCarthyist environment to work in according to people I know there.

Particularly if you're a scientist who dares to acknowledge the scientific fact that two sexes in all mammals, including humans, is true, has been for millions of years and sex matters in terms of female safety, dignity and privacy. I wonder if Tracey really thinks this isn't true? Would love someone to ask her.

As a flagship university it's actually really embarrassing: all the foreign students from countries where the Emperor isn't naked must just think Oxford academics promoting this are nuts. Or possibly just laughing their heads off at the idea that the UK will be at the forefront of research, economically or anything if those in power can fall for the idea that rich mostly white men with an inner sense of womanhood (undefined) and dislike of women saying 'no' are literally THE most oppressed people in the world.

WhereYouLeftIt · 04/10/2023 08:23

AutumnCrow · 04/10/2023 01:56

“I was deeply saddened to learn of the abusive and threatening language and behaviours that our trans community suffered this year. We should have done more to support them; rest assured lessons were learnt."

I would very much like to hear her specific examples of this, with detailed evidence.

I would very much like to hear her comment on the abusive and threatening language and behaviours that "our trans community" dished out!

Boiledbeetle · 04/10/2023 08:55

“I was deeply saddened to learn of the abusive and threatening language and behaviours that our trans community suffered this year. We should have done more to support them; rest assured lessons were learnt.

Let's correct that for her...

“I was deeply saddened to learn that our trans community committed abusive and threatening language and behaviours towards people who think you can't change sex this year. We should have done more to support the people they abused; rest assured lessons were learnt and trans rights activists will be expected to behave like civilised adults this year"

NitroNine · 04/10/2023 09:02

No mention of Selina Todd needing security protection for daring to mention women might have rights too. Not so keen to address literal violence when it is, er, literal violence & not TRA-style “literal violence”, is she?

Swipe left for the next trending thread