Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

[Imnobody4]

Yes¡ Just done a little victory dance. I hope it really is as good as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1708956051683295391?t=daMUSC8mbF_9sSi9ynIsIg&s=19

On Tuesday, Steve Barclay will announce proposals to push back against “wokery” in the health service that has led to women’s rights being increasingly sidelined.The changes would give men and women the right to be cared for on wards only shared by people of their own biological sex, and to have intimate care provided by those of the same sex.Mr Barclay said the plan would mean the return of “a common-sense approach to sex and equality”, ensuring that women’s dignity was protected and their voices heard.The proposals follow concerns from patients and staff about biological men being allowed on to women’s hospital wards. In 2021, NHS guidance said trans patients could be placed on single-sex wards on the basis of the gender with which they identified.

'people's' health, I note. Presumably they don't see women as people.

Stonewall hath spake. The apparent irony that it is "humiliating and dangerous" to the cunty kind of woman to have males on her ward in hospital, seemingly lost on them. Or they don't care. Whichever.

"Whether it’s underfunding on female-specific health issues or simply not having their symptoms taken seriously, women regularly report dissatisfaction with the healthcare they receive in England.

This is a cynical attempt by the Secretary of State to ‘look busy’ instead of getting on with the graft of implementing the Women’s Health Strategy, and, besides being unworkable, all it will achieve is to restrict access to healthcare for trans women, by making it humiliating and dangerous."

x.com/stonewalluk/status/1709163916029260264?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Archived article from the Telegraph, Barclay tells NHS staff to 'stop it with pronouns!'. I'm paraphrasing.

https://archive.ph/eZOPC

The quote at the end from Stonewall, at the moment applies to women. Why don't Stonewall stop trying to change the rest of the world to suit Transpeople and, instead, stop telling them that disagreement is hatred and teach them some resilience.

I'm actually embarrassed that the Government has to deal with such idiotic nonsense that never should have been allowed to become so established.

Apparently protecting women from rape and exclusion and humiliation harms access to health care for males.

Sorry mate, if your access to health care really is dependent on your having control over me and your inhindered access to me in a state of vulnerability and distress, then as far as I'm concerned you can either get over yourself or you can self exclude like you're delighted for me to do. This is sociopathic.

Men can access healthcare without being provided with women's bodies. Men will not die from being prevented from using and abusing non consenting women.

And the absolute FARCE of all the wailing about oh TQ+ male people might not want to go to health care (if they can't have free access to non consenting partially dressed women to use as wanted) -

no one has given a TOSS about the distress of women, or the exclusion of women, or the women forced to self exclude, some of whom have been raped by these men having their little needs met . Their access to health care has been of zero concern to anyone through all this.

This is not 'fostering good relations' between groups, this is driving me absolutely around the bend at the sheer tone deaf misogyny that thinks the only humans that matter are males with TQ+ identities, and that women are just walking appliances for their use.

I also noticed the little 'if you try to stop men coming on your wards when you're vulnerable and helpless and ill and possibly subconscious, and you won't be nicely open minded about being flashed, raped, assaulted, etc, they'll stop single sex wards altogether and then you'll be sorry ' attempt.

Heard it. It's right out of the stable with 'oooh don't rock the boat about equality, they might take your abortion rights' coercion to make women eat up the shit sandwich nicely like good girls so that men can go on doing whatever they want.

GTF. Seriously.

It’s the patriarchy writ large, isn’t it?

I also noticed the little 'if you try to stop men coming on your wards when you're vulnerable and helpless and ill and possibly subconscious, and you won't be nicely open minded about being flashed, raped, assaulted, etc, they'll stop single sex wards altogether and then you'll be sorry ' attempt.

Aye. Shut up like a good girl and take what crumbs are tossed your way.

This is why its going to take more than clarification of policy to make single sex wards actually single sex.

Gender ideology has been accepted uncritically into every part of the NHS. The government will have to make sure that every arms length body, every union and every manager understands the law as it is, not how they want it to be.

Talk about being deliberately obtuse. I assume this works for you when you're challenged?

I straight up don’t know what you keep posting about.

What you are meant to be challenging or whatever. You just keep just coming back with insults and not saying much

Maybe just clarify or move on.

To be honest, I don’t know what either of you are posting about, and I’m not usually obtuse.

Maybe take it to PM. 💐

We’re so swamped with how engrained this is, in so many institutions

It’s really concerning

God no. Repetition here is enough

Just ignore

I'm a healthcare assistant - wards in my health board in are overwhelmingly mixed sex, though within a ward, multi-bed bays are usually single sex. Usually but not always (eg in acute receiving wards, it's not always possible)

I think this is a deeply cynical announcement by the health secretary. He must know that even if it were implemented, it will have little to no impact on actual patient experience.

As we've said many times before, a clearly mixed sex space is preferable to one that purports to be single sex, but isn't.

It gets better
Patients could be given right to know if their doctor is transgender https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12590633/Patients-given-right-know-doctor-transgender-government-crackdown-NHS-wokery.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Could.

Not will.

It's just hot air right now.

The details of this will be ones to pore over

I think that framing this all around transgender is unhelpful. All this ‘transwomen banned from female wards’ etc is a distortion.

It’s not about ‘banning’. It’s about ensuring people’s right to be treated on a single sex ward (or at least portion of the ward) and their right to be treated by an HCP of the same sex.

The fact that means that trans people will be in the ward appropriate to their sex is a different issue. The differentiating factor is sex for everyone. Same with the need for trans HCPs to disclose their sex. All HCPs must disclose their sex to patients - it’s just that it’s disproportionately trans people who want to hide it or lie about it.

The vast majority of the population is overwhelmingly in favour of single sex wards. Has been for decades. The NHS’s inability to properly provide them has been an ongoing issue, with various ministerial guarantees etc.

Similarly, I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of the British population are in support of patients being able to choose to be treated by an HCP of the same sex, especially for intimate examinations.

None of this is ‘bigotry’.

Nor is it anything to do with being taken in my awful ‘right wing’ politicians. Up until everything seemed to be about the desperate need to affirm and validate the feelings of trans people, all the parties were generally of the view that not giving people the right to single sex wards was inhumane and degrading. For example: https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/16/government-promise-end-mixed-sex-hospital-wards. The difference tended to be that, once in power, parties were faced with the issues of ensuring that right in an under resourced NHS.

So let’s stop framing it all around trans people. They really aren’t the centre of the universe. Single sex provision in healthcare, for toileting, in sport, in rape counselling, in prisons and so on is about rights that the vast majority of people are in agreement about - people should have a right to single sex provision.

If you polled people and asked questions that didn’t centre round appeasing TRAs you’d find high degrees of consensus within the population on single sex provision.

Should a male HCP be allowed to pretend to be a woman to perform an examination on a female patient who has asked for single sex care?

Few people would say ‘oh yes. absolutely’. That’s why it matters so much that the question gets framed as ‘should transgender HCPs have to disclose their biological sex to patients?’ That centres the rights and feelings of the trans HCP and positions patients as awful bigots. But actually, few people think a biological man should be allowed to lie about his sex so he can perform a smear test on a woman. Most people feel strongly that’s a violation of the patient’s rights and bodily autonomy.

RE the framing around 'trans people', one of the messages read out on WH yesterday was something along the lines of "I would have no problem at all sharing a ward with a transwoman', which creates the illusion that the people with whom she disagrees are objecting to someone's presence on the grounds of their 'transness' rather than their maleness.
For the most part, people don't care about other people's gender identity. In a whole host of contexts, gender identity is simply a private matter that has no bearing on other people, and other people are more than happy to just live and let live. It is sex that people are concerned about. Not in any of the many cases where NHS facilities are, for good reasons, provided on a mixed-sex basis, but in the cases where, for good reasons, they are (or claim to be) provided on a single-ses basis.

I think what I am trying to say is that many people view 'gender critical' women as somehow being obsessed about the fact that an indvidual is trans, unable to get past their transness. Whereas the opposite is in fact the case: they regard someone's gender identity (their trans status) as being literally irrelevant when allocation of spaces, facilities, etc are made on the basis of sex.

wards in my health board in are overwhelmingly mixed sex, though within a ward, multi-bed bays are usually single sex.

Most politicians and the general public don't really know the difference between a 'ward' and a 'bay'. I have a feeling (am having breakfast - will dig out the actual document later) that single sex bays within a mixed sex ward are not a reportable breach. As long as there's a door between the bay and the rest of the ward, and the bay contains loo and washing facilities that patients can get to without entering the mixed sex space, that counts as acceptable single-sex provision. Both in policy and to the general public.

For most purposes. Places like locked mental health wards where the patients are - on the whole - more mobile and there for longer might have (and certainly need) more secure separation.

So much this.

It’s what I keep saying when the issue comes up in discussion.

It’s not about trans people - it’s about male-bodied people.

I don’t give a shit about anyone’s gender identity, because gender is meaningless to me. It’s ephemeral and can be changed on a whim.

I don’t want any male person - regardless of how they identify - in my single-sex spaces.

Exactly. It's being Male and using Female provision that we have an issue with.

This.

Is it high?

In January 5000 patients were in mixed sex wards

Whats admissions for a year?

In 2021/22 there were 140 million patient interactions in hospital.

Also saw this, just generally it’s so high I hadn’t thought if numbers

The work to support the estimate that the NHS sees a million people every 36 hours was undertaken more than 10 years ago. Using the methodology we have described, and with the caveats we have outlined, we estimate that NHS activity has increased to an average of 2.3 million interactions with patients every 36 hours, or a million interactions every 15 hours.