Mary Beard in the Herald.

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23825192.mary-beard-scottish-independence-trans-rights-romans/

'On trans rights, Beard says: “I don’t fully understand why, more than anything else, it’s proved to be an issue we find very hard to discuss. Why did this, of all issues, become so toxic? There may be, and I’m sure there are, some transphobes, trans-haters, out there, but most people I think aren’t in that category. Many of them are puzzled, worried, about where this leaves cis women.
“Those are utterly reasonable questions that we ought to be able to raise, but that’s proved impossible, and I’m not clear why … I want to explore what’s preventing us managing to have a conversation about this.”
Beard says she’d like to make a programme about the difficulties around discussing the issue, but adds: “I’m probably too much of a coward. That’s a shame as we need to find a way in which this can be talked about because people get terribly damaged on all sides - not just one side.”
As a feminist, does she perceive a clash between ‘trans rights and women’s rights’? “I hope there isn’t,” she says. “It’s presented as if there is, and I can see where people are coming from, but what we ought to be thinking is ‘how do we square the circle here?’. I hope in 20 years time we aren’t talking like this.”'

🙄

In the same article:

'“We all like to think we’d be the freedom fighter. Rome reminds you most of us would probably just have gone along with it - cooperated, said ‘yes, sir’, and kept our heads down.”'

Confession rather than comment.

But I can't fault her too much, I can see why she'd hold back.

How utterly cowardly of her. A mealy mouthed reply that manages to dodge the question by feigning confusion. She’s a highly intelligent woman who of course fully understands the issue. It’s not the conflict between Israel and Palestine she’s being asked to comment on or the discovery of a new law of physics. It’s an issue that is extremely simple to understand, she’s just pretending not to so they’ll do it to Julia instead.

Beard is probably Britain’s most influential public intellectual.
Feigns complete ignorance of the trans issue and wonders why it isn't debated.
These people make me so cross.

Shame

Very disappointed 😞

I read another similar interview recently. The faux-naif "I just don't understand" from a woman who trades in her intellect is so, so disappointing. The seeming apology for her cowardice is a smart way of dodging the bullets (letting someone else get hit?) I suppose but ultimately I just can't respect her anymore. Shame.

In the same article she also says cancel culture isn’t really a thing - and yet she won’t make a documentary about trans issues because she’s afraid. It’s almost as if she knows exactly what would happen if she didn’t make the “right” kind of documentary

seems she didn’t meet up with Jo Phoenix then

'Cancel culture is, she feels, “wildly exaggerated. I’m not saying it doesn’t entirely exist. But when I look back to when I was a student, we were doing cancel culture. We’d demonstrate in the hope of getting people no-platformed”.

...
On trans rights, Beard says: “I don’t fully understand why, more than anything else, it’s proved to be an issue we find very hard to discuss.'

She's typical of the privileged, cushioned, liberal leftie, luvvie of the BBC / Guardian etc etc. I'm alright Jack.

Beard belongs to the same liberal left camp that JKR used to thrive in.
Unfortunately for JKR, JKR had the insight to see the misogyny inherent in gender ideology, and the bravery to point it out.
Beard and the rest of them absolutely saw what happened there. Beard is a coward and doesn't want the hassle of speaking the truth. Disappointed.

Like Naomi Klein.

Anyone who claims they don't understand why trans "rights" might affect women's rights is either stupid or lying.

It's interesting, though, that we seem to be getting to the point where many people feel that they are in some way obliged to comment on the topic, even if that's just to say 'I'm too scared to comment'.

I wonder if there's a tipping point arriving, where the silent (silenced) majority takes the first tentative step towards saying 'I'm not saying anything', which is pointedly not saying TWAW.

In an exasperating kind of a way I suppose it's progress. The first step away from NO DEBATE is saying 'there is no debate where there should be one'.

The golden bridge is being built one fucking brick at a time.

❤️ Mary Beard

It's a bit like the unknown unknowns and known unknowns, isn't it?

Not so long ago, the question would never have been posed. And if it had, responses would have been wall to wall TWAW most vulnerable etc etc etc.

By saying you'd like to have an opinion but you're scared, in effect you're basically saying you think TWANW and women's rights matter but can't quite bring yourself to use your words.

Follow the golden brick road, peeps... there's nothing behind the curtain but sunlight.

By saying you'd like to have an opinion but you're scared, in effect you're basically saying you think TWANW and women's rights matter but can't quite bring yourself to use your words.

Yes.

I seem to remember some time around 2014/2015 or so MB signed a letter with other academics/ folk of "note" regarding censorship and was then subject to a pile on and accused of "transphobia" so maybe that has coloured her stance on the matter?

i think Beard’s reply is a bit better than Klein’s — at least Beard said “these are utterly reasonable questions to raise”, by which I assume she means the GC questions are reasonable to raise. Perhaps the journalist wasn’t clued up enough to ask effective follow-up questions?

I felt the article was well phrased… save for the unfortunate use of the word cis. Without that I’d have seen it as an expression of views similar to my own and an honest reflection on being too cowardly to face it openly. With it… well I saw it as capitulation when other comments implied a feminist and broadly GC approach?

Beard says she’d like to make a programme about the difficulties around discussing the issue

I would love to see this. There is plenty of footage of how women have been silenced. We have footage of assaults, terrorism, chanting, abuse, violence. Worldwide. There's also plenty of women who've had to take employers to court to win discrimination cases over these issues. I think all of these women have won so far. There is Stonewall's 'no debate', fairly well documented, I think. And all the debates that trans allies and activists have withdrawn from because they won't discuss the issues in the presence of anyone who disagrees.

The 'chilling' effect may be harder to portray, given that it's largely an absence of women speaking up on this. But perhaps the programme could quote prominent women talking about how they feel 'cowardly' not talking about it. And why that is.

I agree with this. I think the fairly clear subtext is that gender critical voices deserve not to be shouted down, and the vast majority of things being branded transphobic are not. Giving the benefit of the doubt, I also think that her comments on the conflict with women's rights might well have meant something like 'we ought to be able to explore options like third spaces'.
A shame she used cis though.

Cis?
And does not perceive an issue between women's rights and "trans rights". Come on. FFS.

She's typical of the privileged, cushioned, liberal leftie, luvvie of the BBC / Guardian etc etc. I'm alright Jack.
Yes, that's her.
Just another bien pensant wringing their hands about the state of discourse, and deliberately ignoring the evidence that the vitriol is all one way
I agree with previous posts that say that at least people like her are supposed to state an opinion, but I'm fed up with being told to be kind.

I really like Mary Beard but very disappointed with her use of 'cis', not a concept I recognise or accept

I agree with others that she is saying quite a lot by admitting that there should be questions to be discussed and that she is too scared to od a programme about it, although not sure what she means by trans rights dont clash with womens rights. They do at times dependent on the situation

What a shame.

Mary Beard we need you. We need your courage and intelligence. Your fear is understandable but you’re letting women down.