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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

That fucking tree

173 replies

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2023 00:53

Anyone else pissed off that UK media and public seem more aghast about a 16 year old boy killing a tree than a 17 year old boy killing a girl?

OP posts:
JulesJules · 29/09/2023 22:03

Eddyraisins · 29/09/2023 06:33

While we are all upset about Elianne.

That ' fucking tree' is an awful title.

It isn't a competition, it goes without saying human life is more important. Doesn't mean people can't be sad about an age old landmark. That fucking tree what an awful op. Truly.

This isn't helping women not one bit.

This. This is local to me and I'm heartbroken about the tree. Doesn't mean I don't care about girls being stabbed to death OBVIOUSLY. Fucking stupid op.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 29/09/2023 22:14

YABU to think you are able to judge relative aghastness. There could be lots of different reasons for commenting on one news story and not another. If I comment on a parking thread and a cooking thread on MN today, can you reliably guarantee that this means that I don't give a shit about any other, more serious topics that feature on other threads that may have been posted? No, I didn't think so.

bemorebernard · 29/09/2023 22:17

Op if you'd started a thread "that fucking Croydon " would that be ok ?

People can care about several issues at the same time and they can vary in severity.

The murder is horrific, but many people also care about mindless vandalism of a landmark that was stood 300 years. It's not a competition. That why need sites have more than one headline , many news worthy stories each day .

bemorebernard · 29/09/2023 22:20

Another arrest has been made re the tree , a 60 year old man

Pinkflamingopants · 29/09/2023 22:22

The stabbing is horrific and is all over the press, the tree less so. What’s noticeable is everyone is shocked about who he stabbed, though no one is shocked about who the perp was… London is a shitshow (coming from a born and bred SE Londoner)

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 29/09/2023 23:03

Pinkflamingopants · 29/09/2023 22:22

The stabbing is horrific and is all over the press, the tree less so. What’s noticeable is everyone is shocked about who he stabbed, though no one is shocked about who the perp was… London is a shitshow (coming from a born and bred SE Londoner)

It’s not been reported yet who the suspect was.

NatashaDancing · 29/09/2023 23:54

daisychain01 · 29/09/2023 08:15

What's disturbing about threads like this is that they fail to join the dots, that acts of violence against a beautiful tree are a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Deprivation of the human spirit, a young man who has been given no inspiration in his life, that he would not see anything wrong in axing down a tree, that violent cruel streak to nature is akin to violent acts of cruelty to animals. Many of the crimes committed by infamous murderers can be traced back to depravity, neglect and complete absence of positive role models as a blueprint for living a fruitful positive life, including cruelty to vulnerable creatures like puppies and kittens as a way of venting their spleen on life's unfairness.

you're missing the point OP. In this instance it is unhelpful to focus on a damaging trend in society with violence meted out to women as being compatible to the tree - comparing apples to oranges - particularly when, as pointed out on this thread, you are inaccurate in stating they haven't received equal coverage. Not true.

Brilliant post.

Like others, I think the thread name is awful.

CallieQ · 30/09/2023 00:52

Brilliant post.
Like others, I think the thread name is awful

Seconded

YellowClogDancer · 30/09/2023 00:57

I saw that tree, it was beautiful, the location was outstanding. I don’t know the girl, the boy, Croydon or any part of London. I am heartbroken about the tree. I feel bad that males can treat females (and trees) as if they are worthless. The tree was gorgeous and old and now it has been killed.

Fucking OP

SharonEllis · 30/09/2023 07:42

Pinkflamingopants · 29/09/2023 22:22

The stabbing is horrific and is all over the press, the tree less so. What’s noticeable is everyone is shocked about who he stabbed, though no one is shocked about who the perp was… London is a shitshow (coming from a born and bred SE Londoner)

Of course noone is surprised that a male is responsible for this murder. Murderers are almost always male, regardless of the sex of the victim.I think people are very, very, shocked that a boy so young is already so violent towards a girl so young. We don't know anything more about the boy who has been arrested, as far as I know. Or are you making another point?

Pinkflamingopants · 30/09/2023 08:26

@SharonEllis his arrest and picture is all over social media. Of course no one is surprised he was male, and no one is surprised it was carried out by a male with a foot long machete in Croydon. Maybe that’s why the papers aren’t that interested outside of London.

sadaboutmycat · 30/09/2023 08:40

No they don't. Get a grip. Two things can co exist.

Ikeameatballlunch · 30/09/2023 11:27

The two things are entirely different- "that tree" is also where many people have scattered ashes.

Anyway, the latest update is an even more complex and even more different story.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/plankey-mill-northumberland-farmer-eviction-27766907.amp

Ikeameatballlunch · 30/09/2023 11:27

Shit grammar, sorry!

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 11:43

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2023 00:53

Anyone else pissed off that UK media and public seem more aghast about a 16 year old boy killing a tree than a 17 year old boy killing a girl?

It's simple and sad - people are so used to seeing violence, rape, and murder committed against women and girls that in most cases, it's simply background wallpaper.

I'm tired of hearing of yet another case where a girl disappeared and was then found sexually assaulted and dead, and the murderers were men who were close to her in some way.

Or an old woman who was raped or tortured in her own home before being killed by a sick younger man.

Or another woman who turns up being chopped to pieces or her body simply dumped in a remote location after being raped & killed as if she is nothing more than a blow-up doll.

People feel aghast at stories of Nazis using the skins of Jewish people or other minorities as lampshades. Women have to endure that kind of demise all over the world, to their bodies, and it's sad that we're all so used to it. We feel powerless to stop it.

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 11:45

sadaboutmycat · 30/09/2023 08:40

No they don't. Get a grip. Two things can co exist.

They can of course, but it's a sad sign that people feel more shocked at a tree being cut down than violence against women. It's just not a surprise or most people, just another gruesome headline, so it doesn't get the same shock response.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 30/09/2023 11:52

When we lose empathy for other species we lose some empathy for other humans, too.
I actually think the reaction to the tree shows humanity is more capable than I ever thought of thinking about anything at all that doesn't centre humans in the narrative and put our wants above the needs (or lives) of other beings.

Iwasafool · 30/09/2023 12:06

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 11:43

It's simple and sad - people are so used to seeing violence, rape, and murder committed against women and girls that in most cases, it's simply background wallpaper.

I'm tired of hearing of yet another case where a girl disappeared and was then found sexually assaulted and dead, and the murderers were men who were close to her in some way.

Or an old woman who was raped or tortured in her own home before being killed by a sick younger man.

Or another woman who turns up being chopped to pieces or her body simply dumped in a remote location after being raped & killed as if she is nothing more than a blow-up doll.

People feel aghast at stories of Nazis using the skins of Jewish people or other minorities as lampshades. Women have to endure that kind of demise all over the world, to their bodies, and it's sad that we're all so used to it. We feel powerless to stop it.

Show quote history

It isn't just girls though, there is even less public outrage when young men are killed. Lots barely get a mention. There are some exceptions but how often is there a small mention of a teenage boy being killed and that's it.

The statistics used to be worse for violence against young men, don't know if it is still the same.

None of it should just be normalised.

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 12:19

@Iwasafool

Really?? Are you actually doing a 'BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ' at me?? On Mumsnet? On a Women's rights forum, not a 'Everybody's rights forum'.

Jesus Christ.

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 12:22

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 30/09/2023 11:52

When we lose empathy for other species we lose some empathy for other humans, too.
I actually think the reaction to the tree shows humanity is more capable than I ever thought of thinking about anything at all that doesn't centre humans in the narrative and put our wants above the needs (or lives) of other beings.

I disagree. Humans were very much centred in this narrative. The tree in question does not exist in abstract. It gathered the outpouring it did because of the emotional connections is had with people scattering ashed there, proposing there, a famous film was filmed there, and it was an icon in the area, drawing in visitors and tourists. It wasn't like it was a tree with ecological significance only.

Iwasafool · 30/09/2023 12:23

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 12:19

@Iwasafool

Really?? Are you actually doing a 'BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ' at me?? On Mumsnet? On a Women's rights forum, not a 'Everybody's rights forum'.

Jesus Christ.

No I'm pointing out that we don't hear much uproar about young men being stabbed/killed. As a mother of sons and daughters I find both disturbing. Obviously some people don't but being a woman and being a feminist doesn't have to mean you throw young men and boys under the bus or pretend it only happens to women and girls.

If the only way you can do feminism is to pretend that there is something very specific about people not registering violence against women when exactly the same thing applies to men you must have a very fragile sense of justice.

SharonEllis · 30/09/2023 12:28

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 12:22

I disagree. Humans were very much centred in this narrative. The tree in question does not exist in abstract. It gathered the outpouring it did because of the emotional connections is had with people scattering ashed there, proposing there, a famous film was filmed there, and it was an icon in the area, drawing in visitors and tourists. It wasn't like it was a tree with ecological significance only.

Edited
Show quote history

Completely agree.

DoItAgainPlz · 30/09/2023 12:34

EarthSight · 30/09/2023 11:43

It's simple and sad - people are so used to seeing violence, rape, and murder committed against women and girls that in most cases, it's simply background wallpaper.

I'm tired of hearing of yet another case where a girl disappeared and was then found sexually assaulted and dead, and the murderers were men who were close to her in some way.

Or an old woman who was raped or tortured in her own home before being killed by a sick younger man.

Or another woman who turns up being chopped to pieces or her body simply dumped in a remote location after being raped & killed as if she is nothing more than a blow-up doll.

People feel aghast at stories of Nazis using the skins of Jewish people or other minorities as lampshades. Women have to endure that kind of demise all over the world, to their bodies, and it's sad that we're all so used to it. We feel powerless to stop it.

Show quote history

What on Earth are you talking about?

There has been far more coverage of the stabbing of the girl in Croydon than there usually is about London stabbings, presumably because it's actually quite rare for teenage girls to be stabbed. Teenage boys seem to be stabbed every week and there's very little coverage of this.

You can't bend the reality of what's around you to fit in with your ideology.

I'm from the north east. I'm devastated about the tree. It is horrific vandalism. Unfortunately someone being stabbed in London at this point feels like just another statistic.

I'm devastated about the coach crash in which a schoolgirl lost her life, a schoolboy has life changing injuries and the driver was killed.

Something needs to be done about knives and gang culture. Zero tolerance.

DoItAgainPlz · 30/09/2023 12:48

There's also race at play here. To many, inner city knife crime is synonymous with black kids. A black kid stabbed by another black kid seems like an every day occurence almost.

Shows like Top Boy have only glorified this culture.

Talking heads on cultural affairs programmes seem like they're treading on eggshells when talking about it, as if they're in danger of saying the wrong thing.

Nowadays it almost feels almost like people can't comment on these matters, for reasons of racial insensitivity.

The natural reaction here is to call for more police or stop and search powers. But that doesn't tend to go down well.

PorcelinaV · 30/09/2023 15:38

The natural reaction here is to call for more police or stop and search powers. But that doesn't tend to go down well.

Yeah, that probably has disproportionate impact on minorities.

Maybe we need better school discipline, and stronger punishments for young offenders. But again, that could have a disproportionate impact on minorities.

There isn't really the stomach to try a right wing tougher approach, or alternatively try to radically change society and build our socialist utopia where no one wants to commit crime in the first place, and so we probably just have to live with the crime levels we have.