Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

That fucking tree

173 replies

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2023 00:53

Anyone else pissed off that UK media and public seem more aghast about a 16 year old boy killing a tree than a 17 year old boy killing a girl?

OP posts:
SecondClassReturnToDottinghamPlease · 29/09/2023 01:04

They're really not. The Croydon killing is awful and getting a lot more attention, as is right. But the common denominator is.... Oh wait - NAMALT!

Original poster
FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2023 01:12

Maybe it's because I'm in the North, but I've heard plenty of people sharing aghastness about the tree and not one single person about the girl.

It feels like Dog bites Man vs Man bites Dog. Boy kills girl? Sad but it happens. Boy kills famous tree? End of days.

OP posts:
Bosky · 29/09/2023 02:08

Plenty of people in the North shared "aghastness" when school girl Holly Newton was stabbed to death in Hexham in January.

"Hexham stabbings: Boy, 16, charged with murdering teenage girl"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64445537

Do you think the people of Croyden were sharing their "aghastness" at Holly's death at the time?

Or would they have been more preoccupied by local events?

https://insidecroydon.com/2023/01/

"It feels like Dog bites Man vs Man bites Dog. Boy kills girl? Sad but it happens. Boy kills famous tree? End of days."

No, it feels like you are expecting everyone across the UK to be focussed on a particular murder in the London area when there are stabbings and young people being killed all over the UK with horrifying regularity.

"99 young people aged under 25 were murdered with a knife or sharp object in the 12 months to March 2022. 13 were aged under 16."

https://benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-statistics/

In 2021, 30 teenagers were killed, most of them with knives, in London alone.

"London teen homicides: How killings broke 2008 record"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59239893

Did you share "aghastness" at each of those killings?

The felling of the Sycamore Gap tree is going to be experienced with shock and loss by many people in the North. You obviously don't understand why and that is OK.

However, I would bet my bottom dollar that more of them are also shocked by the death of Elianne Andam than those living in the South were even aware of the death of Holly Newton, or of the deaths of the many children and young people killed in the London area.

Holly Newton

Hexham stabbings: Boy, 16, charged with murdering teenage girl

Holly Newton, 15, was stabbed in Hexham on Friday evening and later died in hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64445537

Dunnoburt · 29/09/2023 02:36

Are you really comparing the two?

PyongyangKipperbang · 29/09/2023 03:22

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2023 00:53

Anyone else pissed off that UK media and public seem more aghast about a 16 year old boy killing a tree than a 17 year old boy killing a girl?

Couldnt agree more.

Too many angry thoughts to articulate about it but the simple fact is that the arsehole who cut the tree down will probably be "known" for the rest of their life, but the murderer who took the life of a wonderful young woman will not. Will anyone remember his name? Will anyone even fucking care?

Thats how little womens lives matter.

There will always be more of us. But only one fucking tree....ffs

Bosky · 29/09/2023 03:26

The murder by stabbing of two school girls in different parts of the country and the reactions in different parts of the country to them? Yes. I am not scolding anyone for the difference. The tree is pretty much a red herring as far as that is concerned.

It is unrealistic to expect people to be equally "aghast" by a horrific murder in their neighbourhood as by a horrific murder far away. To attribute the difference entirely to something else shocking that has happened on their own doorstep denies reality.

What would be genuinely shocking was if it was Holly Newton who had been killed the same day that the Sycamore had been felled and people in the area were more exercised about the tree. IMHO it would be a double blow and the events would probably always be inextricably linked in people's minds, at least locally if not in Croyden.

A better question would be why are people more "aghast" at the murders of some children in their neighbourhood than at the murders of other children in their neighbourhood?

Bosky · 29/09/2023 03:29

Sorry - that was a reply to Dunnoburt.

66rabbits · 29/09/2023 03:42

They're all acts of male violence, including the tree..

PriOn1 · 29/09/2023 05:25

I think it’s because the tree is a one off event that feels personal to many, whereas violence against women is almost background noise. These awful murder cases do get attention, especially when young women are the victims, but the destruction of something ancient or iconic is always going to have resonance.

When Notre Dame burned, it was similarly huge. People hold places in their heart for all kind of reasons and others feel empathy for that. If you want an example of the death of a person inspiring a similar outpouring, I’d say the death of Diana Princess of Wales was the same type of event, albeit on a different scale. People care because it feels personal.

EdgeOfACoin · 29/09/2023 05:46

The murder of Elianne Andam is getting a huge amount of press down south where I am. It was front page news on the London Evening Standard. People are horrified.

I haven't heard that much about the tree.

inappropriateraspberry · 29/09/2023 05:56

They were talking about the stabbing on Question Time tonight from Manchester. It's definitely being talked about more than a tree! But both are news stories and both will be covered in the press and on tv.

inappropriateraspberry · 29/09/2023 05:58

Actually I heard about the tree on here. Never heard of it before, only seemed familiar when someone mentioned Robin Hood! Then it was on the 6 o'clock news.
The stabbing of a teen girl has been drawn to my attention via social media, news and radio all day.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2023 06:02

Well I haven’t heard about a tree but have about the horrific Croydon incident

tuesday2am · 29/09/2023 06:02

I’m in Scotland. Both stories were getting a lot of press coverage here, but the stabbing definitely more so.

The tree being felled is a huge story though, and more unusual to a stabbing (unfortunately)… so the coverage it’s receiving seems fair to me.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 29/09/2023 06:04

Both are on my twitter feed

lollipoprainbow · 29/09/2023 06:06

The stabbing has had masses of media attention more so then other daily stabbings.

MrsTerryPratchett · 29/09/2023 06:08

Bosky · 29/09/2023 03:26

The murder by stabbing of two school girls in different parts of the country and the reactions in different parts of the country to them? Yes. I am not scolding anyone for the difference. The tree is pretty much a red herring as far as that is concerned.

It is unrealistic to expect people to be equally "aghast" by a horrific murder in their neighbourhood as by a horrific murder far away. To attribute the difference entirely to something else shocking that has happened on their own doorstep denies reality.

What would be genuinely shocking was if it was Holly Newton who had been killed the same day that the Sycamore had been felled and people in the area were more exercised about the tree. IMHO it would be a double blow and the events would probably always be inextricably linked in people's minds, at least locally if not in Croyden.

A better question would be why are people more "aghast" at the murders of some children in their neighbourhood than at the murders of other children in their neighbourhood?

What's genuinely shocking is your lack of empathy. Wall of text, no feeling for the poor girl.

OldTinHat · 29/09/2023 06:10

When I watched the 6pm news yesterday, the headlines were about the tragic, awful murder of that poor girl. The tree only featured briefly at the end.

Prescottdanni123 · 29/09/2023 06:11

I'm also in the North, not far from where the tree is. I'm not sure what news channels you've been watching but the stabbing has had far more attention everywhere I've seen.

Eddyraisins · 29/09/2023 06:25

I disagree. I am in the North and have seen more about Elianne.

There is also place for both. Both arrogant men( boys) who think they can do what they like.

I also sadly agree about the North South divide. Relatives down south had not heard of Holly.

Mothership4two · 29/09/2023 06:30

I heard about the tree from a news bulletin yesterday and have heard a lot of media coverage about the stabbing. As it should be. The stabbing was discussed on BBC Breakfast News just now, but the tree had one later mention when they were commenting on what was in the newspapers.

I have seen the tree and do think it is sad as it was unusual and was iconic on a historic site. Obviously no way comparable to the tragic death in Croydon. In the same week that the dire State of Nature report was reported in the media you have some idiot cutting down this tree - it is almost symbolic.

Eddyraisins · 29/09/2023 06:33

While we are all upset about Elianne.

That ' fucking tree' is an awful title.

It isn't a competition, it goes without saying human life is more important. Doesn't mean people can't be sad about an age old landmark. That fucking tree what an awful op. Truly.

This isn't helping women not one bit.

Watermelon47 · 29/09/2023 06:34

Eddyraisins · 29/09/2023 06:25

I disagree. I am in the North and have seen more about Elianne.

There is also place for both. Both arrogant men( boys) who think they can do what they like.

I also sadly agree about the North South divide. Relatives down south had not heard of Holly.

I agree with you.

But I am in the north (Cheshire) and I had not heard of holly either, which is awful that it seems to be so commonplace that it doesn’t attract the publicity. I have no idea why some cases attract so much media attention and other similar ones don’t.

moggo · 29/09/2023 06:37

I don't think you can compare the two events and they can both stand alone as horrible events. Obviously the death of this girl is way more tragic but people can also be horrified about the tree at the same time. I get the outrage of the sycamore. It is a beautiful tree that is synonymous with the local area and has stood for a very long time. It's is loved by and has meaning to many and the landscape is now forever changed. It was yet another absolutely senseless act by a male who knew what he was doing and probably thought it was a laugh.

Theunamedcat · 29/09/2023 06:43

What's surprised me is the amount of men (I've not seen any women do it) challenge "the narrative " that men are more violent than women claiming more men are killed by women than vice versa they have screamed prove me wrong and when proved wrong tell people they have missed the point and are only picking certain comments too respond to its insanity