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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

That fucking tree

173 replies

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2023 00:53

Anyone else pissed off that UK media and public seem more aghast about a 16 year old boy killing a tree than a 17 year old boy killing a girl?

OP posts:
ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 29/09/2023 09:57

Also, how much coverage do you need on a murder case?

The suspect is in custody l, they will appear in court today, they will be charged and then the proceedings will follow.

I find the relentless demand for more and more information prurient. Why don’t we give the family time and space to grieve?

LakeTiticaca · 29/09/2023 10:05

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 29/09/2023 09:57

Also, how much coverage do you need on a murder case?

The suspect is in custody l, they will appear in court today, they will be charged and then the proceedings will follow.

I find the relentless demand for more and more information prurient. Why don’t we give the family time and space to grieve?

👏👏👏

lifeturnsonadime · 29/09/2023 10:08

OP this post is really offensive.

Both events are tragic.

The deliberate destruction of an ancient tree should NOT be described as 'that fucking tree'. That tree held a special meaning to many, it is not wrong that this is being reported nationally. It doesn't take anything away from the tragic murder of Elianne.

Agree with PPs who have said that having this thread on a feminism board is wrong.

oldwhyno · 29/09/2023 10:10

We can be aghast about more than one thing at a time.

StopGo · 29/09/2023 10:27

EdgeOfACoin · 29/09/2023 09:34

I have had trouble finding that story.

I saw a story about a 13-year-old boy (13!!!) who was stabbed in south London on the same day as Elianne Andam but fortunately it looks as though he will recover:

Police and paramedics rushed to the scene and the youngster was taken to hospital with stab wounds. His injuries are said to be non life-threatening and non life-changing, and the Met Police confirmed the incident is being investigated.

Was there another South London incident?

Show quote history

No, same incident. I honestly thought he had been killed,I'm sorry.

MrsLeBon2 · 29/09/2023 10:28

I think I’m more bothered that the narrative I’ve heard in news reports about Elianne Andan’s murder have focused on knife crime in general, not on the fact that a 17 year old boy felt entitled enough to bring a knife with him when he attempted to reconcile with his girlfriend. How can someone so young have such an entitled and misogynistic attitude to women? That is what is most shocking to me about the case.

SoGladofYou · 29/09/2023 10:33

I am a Croydon resident. What are ridiculous post. Of course what has happened to this young girl is appalling on so many levels. I have a 10-year-old child and certainly I am worried for them on the basis of what has happened, just down the road from me.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t care about anything else and the felling of the tree it’s also a crime, albeit completely. I have walked the entire length of the Hadrian‘s Wall trail, so this does resonate with me.

As for politicising by posting it under the Feminism - where is your common humanity?

Iwasafool · 29/09/2023 11:09

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 09:22

She was 15, not a woman.

Show quote history

I was quoting what someone else said, maybe take it up with her.

Iwasafool · 29/09/2023 11:11

I'm nowhere near either crime, I'm south west. They seem to be getting fairly equal coverage here, but if anything it is definitely more for the murder.

Locally I haven't heard anyone mention either case just what I've heard on the news.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 29/09/2023 11:38

The murder has been all over the headlines for the past two days, it's simply false to pretend that the media care more about a tree than a female murder victim.

Reporting on murder cases is difficult because you have to obviously respect the family, and they have charged a suspect. There is nothing else to be gained with further reporting. The family and friends should be given space to grieve.

Further reporting on a tree is easier because it's not a sensitive matter.

SharonEllis · 29/09/2023 11:54

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 09:25

The reporting had nothing to do with the fact her parents paid school fees.

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I think it did, actually. A lot. She came from the 'right sort' of black family. Christian, hardworking, aspirational. You see this bias all the time in the media. Daily Mail at one stage had the price of school fees in their headline

AIstolemylunch · 29/09/2023 12:01

oh fgs you know nothing about the local area or it's schools then. They may well have been paying school fees but their is an equally likely chance that she was on a full/partial scholarship or an up to 100% Bursary, as in the region of 40-50% of students at the Whitgift Foundation schools are, particularly from the local community. https://johnwhitgiftfoundation.org/

I don't even see the relevance, what difference does it make if they were paying no, some of full school fees?

Home

As a charity, we have a long story, from the building of the Hospital of the Holy Trinity to the modern-day John Whitgift Foundation.

https://johnwhitgiftfoundation.org

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 12:02

SharonEllis · 29/09/2023 11:54

I think it did, actually. A lot. She came from the 'right sort' of black family. Christian, hardworking, aspirational. You see this bias all the time in the media. Daily Mail at one stage had the price of school fees in their headline

Show quote history

Can you think of the last time a young schoolgirl was stabbed to death in London, or anywhere in Britain - and it was not reported? I doubt it very much.
I think the school fees is more about your own prejudices than anything.

The Guardian also reported on the cost of the fees -probably because they have an agenda with private education - even if the family in question is just an average family who saved and prioritised for school fees in this way.

AIstolemylunch · 29/09/2023 12:03

That's aimed more at the DM rather than people suggesting there is more coverage becasue of her background. There is more coverage becasue she was girl killed by knife crie, not a bou, which is still highly unusual, even for London.

AIstolemylunch · 29/09/2023 12:04

boy

SharonEllis · 29/09/2023 12:09

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 12:02

Can you think of the last time a young schoolgirl was stabbed to death in London, or anywhere in Britain - and it was not reported? I doubt it very much.
I think the school fees is more about your own prejudices than anything.

The Guardian also reported on the cost of the fees -probably because they have an agenda with private education - even if the family in question is just an average family who saved and prioritised for school fees in this way.

Show quote history

Nothing to do with my prejudices (read it again), I haven't expressed my opinion on the poor girl or her family, or private education. I'm talking about media & society prejudice affecting the way different murders are reported. Similar dynamics in the reporting of missing children.

AIstolemylunch · 29/09/2023 12:14

The poor girl killed in Hexham was widely reported here too. I don't believe this has much to do with her race or her schooling status, or very noral, very standard for the area family background. Any discrepancy between reporting of other knifing victims, which are sadly on the local news pretty much every week, is because the was a female killed by knifecrime and male violence, which is still unusual and therefore more newworthy.

It shouldn't be that way of course, the young boys killed by knifecrime are just as shocking and sad and it's become an epidemic in our cities and needs dedicated focus imo.

cushioncovers · 29/09/2023 12:21

The stabbing of that poor girl is headline news op, the tree isn't.

BCCoach · 29/09/2023 12:24

Of course people are talking about the tree felling in the northeast more - it's a local story. Murders happen in London all the time and most people outside of London think of them in the same way as they do news from Syria or Afghanistan: sad and horrifying, but nothing to do with us.

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 12:33

SharonEllis · 29/09/2023 12:09

Nothing to do with my prejudices (read it again), I haven't expressed my opinion on the poor girl or her family, or private education. I'm talking about media & society prejudice affecting the way different murders are reported. Similar dynamics in the reporting of missing children.

Show quote history

But you did link the fact it was reported with the fact. I'm saying the reporting of the killing was in no way influenced by that fact, other than much of the media has mentioned it was an independent school and referred to the cost of the fees. It would still have been reported if like Ava White she went to a state comprehensive.

SharonEllis · 29/09/2023 15:26

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 12:33

But you did link the fact it was reported with the fact. I'm saying the reporting of the killing was in no way influenced by that fact, other than much of the media has mentioned it was an independent school and referred to the cost of the fees. It would still have been reported if like Ava White she went to a state comprehensive.

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But you have ask why they mentioned the school fees. What material relevance does it have to the case or why she was murdered. We don't know enough yet about the motive but then neither, I suspect did the headline writer who put the figure in tne headline. They were making a point by putting it in. Of course the case would still have been reported even if she didn't go to private school - has anyone said it wouldn't have been? Sorry I've missed it if they have. We'll see how the reporting unfolds & then we can compare it to other cases.

RoyalCorgi · 29/09/2023 15:39

This year, so far, 15 young people have been murdered in London. How many can you name?

https://news.sky.com/story/the-teenagers-killed-in-london-so-far-in-2023-12971476

I think it's impossible to dictate people's emotional response to things like this. I felt immensely sad about the murder of Elianne. I also think about Sarah Everard frequently - although women are murdered all the time by men, her killing affected me more deeply than other killings, for reasons I would find it difficult to articulate.

I also felt sad about the tree. I felt more distressed about Elianne, but I did also feel sad about the tree because it had been there a long time and clearly it means a lot to a lot of people. I'm not going to berate myself - or them - for feeling sad about it.

The teenagers killed in London so far in 2023

Fifteen of the 79 people to have died in the capital so far this year have been teenagers, according to data compiled by the PA news agency. Elianne Andam, 15, was the latest to die on Wednesday.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-teenagers-killed-in-london-so-far-in-2023-12971476

RebelliousCow · 29/09/2023 16:08

SharonEllis · 29/09/2023 15:26

But you have ask why they mentioned the school fees. What material relevance does it have to the case or why she was murdered. We don't know enough yet about the motive but then neither, I suspect did the headline writer who put the figure in tne headline. They were making a point by putting it in. Of course the case would still have been reported even if she didn't go to private school - has anyone said it wouldn't have been? Sorry I've missed it if they have. We'll see how the reporting unfolds & then we can compare it to other cases.

Show quote history

I'd suggest that is because it is quite a current topic - what with the Labour party currently saying it is going to charge 20% VAT on top of fees should they be elected. A lot of people have ideological opposition to fee paying schools

heartsinvisiblefury · 29/09/2023 19:04

People can be upset about more than one issue OP.

Qilin · 29/09/2023 19:15

The tragic murder of the teenage girl has been forefront of the news, headlines each time, in my experience. No one has ignored it and many are aghast at such a senseless killing.

Today the headline news has been predominately about the death of a driver and a 14y girl in the school bus crash.

The killing of 1 woman, a girl and a man in Rotterdam were above the news of the tree yesterday - on the bbc news site anyway.

The tree has been mentioned too. It is senseless damage, and male violence (albeit towards a tree) and is an important landmark in the north for many people. It's not been headline news or above the other tragic stories on the news I've seen/read.