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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

One in ten men have carried out sex offences against children

136 replies

HelenFisksBrownSuit · 22/09/2023 12:28

Have you seen this item?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/one-in-ten-men-have-carried-out-sex-offences-against-children-says-survey-fjhd59fhn

Is paedophilia really this common?
I once heard a man (a psychologist I think) say on Radio 4 that he thought most men look at very young teens or even children inappropriately. It's a very disturbing thought.

One in ten men have carried out sex offences against children, says survey

One in ten British men have carried out sexual offences against children, according to a major survey.The study involving 1,500 British men was carried out by

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/one-in-ten-men-have-carried-out-sex-offences-against-children-says-survey-fjhd59fhn

OP posts:
HelenFisksBrownSuit · 22/09/2023 17:21

Men need to care. I don't think many really do.

OP posts:
FairyLover90 · 22/09/2023 17:22

@GarlicGrace

yes same. Jeans and a sweater. Not a cm of cleavage to be seen. I don’t accommodate perverts. If I want to wear revealing clothing I will wear it. When I feel comfortable and it’s age appropriate I’m not going to ruin my daughters childhood by teaching her that everything should be about living in fear. If clothing protected us then muslim countries would be a woman’s absolute safe haven and utopia. We would all just wear burkas and be protected. But it’s quite the opposite really.

dressedforcomfort · 22/09/2023 17:41

If you factor in offences involving a) men looking at inappropriate images online and b) men sleeping with teens aged 14-15 then it wouldn't at all surprise me.

When I was 15 I had numerous men between 18-20 cracking onto me despite the fact I was a child and under the age of consent. (And I was small, skinny and baby faced and looked 2 years younger than my biological age - so there was no way they thought I was older.)

TommyNever · 22/09/2023 17:42

As a man of mature years myself, I'm confident that the nature of male sexuality is the "elephant in the room" in this context. We all understandably denounce the perverts without often asking: why are there always so many perverts?

Men of pretty much any age tend to be sexually attracted to pubescent and post-pubescent youth, as they were in their own adolescence and young adulthood, a time when male sexual urges tend to be particularly strong, tuning the brain for the attractions of the future. This may make sense from an evolutionary perspective, but it's also why male sexuality needs to be strongly socially controlled by age-of-consent laws, and widespread disapproval of sexualisation of early teens etc.

Men who are most attracted to pre-pubescent children presumably "failed" the adolescent phase for some reason, and reverted to previous attractions from the age when all such feelings were "naughty". Other paraphiliac men of an anti-social bent may be particularly turned on by transgression, and court paedophilia specifically for its "forbidden" status.

Is there any long term solution to the problematic aspects of male sexuality? Social progress, understanding and ethical engineering will play a role, but I suspect the final answer will rely on future biotech capabilities.

FrancescaContini · 22/09/2023 17:45

Fucking hell

Ididivfama · 22/09/2023 17:48

ACertainKindOfLight · 22/09/2023 15:27

I also worked for the police years ago and l was horrified by the amount of child sexual abuse cases. This is why l raised my kids on my own after husband died, it's too high risk.

do you know why they did it or why they had no empathy for the children? I can’t really get over it. Destroying a life for your own pleasure.

allhellcantstopusnow · 22/09/2023 17:50

Myself and several members of my family work in this kind of remit and it's very common. I see it several times a day, every day.

Ididivfama · 22/09/2023 17:51

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/09/2023 14:38

This study claims 1:35 men have a sexual interest in children though. Quite a difference from 1:10 (though still far too high).

16 year old or 5 year old? First is gross and second is horric.

DadJoke · 22/09/2023 17:51

I always get irritated with press releases about surveys where they don't point at the actual data. It doesn't look like this will be released for a while, and may only be released to professionals in the field in any case.

The only information we have about the methodology is that it's "carried out using an anonymised online survey in which men were asked questions about their sexual behaviour." Best case, this might be a carefully selected group broken down by demographics and then reassured that the answers won't be tied to them personally, but if it's self-selecting, it's pretty much useless.

It's entirely possible the stats are exactly as they appear to be, but I'll wait for the report.

Ididivfama · 22/09/2023 17:51

allhellcantstopusnow · 22/09/2023 17:50

Myself and several members of my family work in this kind of remit and it's very common. I see it several times a day, every day.

But why? I wish we had some more answers about this and how to spot it.

PinkNailpolish · 22/09/2023 17:59

Does this include 18 year old men with 16 year old girls or are we talking younger (16 and 18 is normal when they're in sixth form college)? 10% seems so high and really disturbs me. Although men my dad's age (20+ years older than me) kept eyeing me up and cat calling me when I was a teen and in my early 20s (when I still looked like a teen). I'm in my late 20s with a child now and these creeps don't look at me anymore (thank god).

FairyLover90 · 22/09/2023 18:02

@PinkNailpolish

most developed countries protect this age gap of 16-18 year olds. Some call these laws the “romeo and juliet” laws.

Increasinglyfrazzledteacher · 22/09/2023 18:28

“The study was carried out using an anonymised online survey in which men were asked questions about their sexual behaviour.”

It’s self-selecting online survey, like the one that led to the often-made claim that one in four transwomen have attempted suicide. I am taking it with a considerably large pinch of salt.

allhellcantstopusnow · 22/09/2023 18:30

PinkNailpolish · 22/09/2023 17:59

Does this include 18 year old men with 16 year old girls or are we talking younger (16 and 18 is normal when they're in sixth form college)? 10% seems so high and really disturbs me. Although men my dad's age (20+ years older than me) kept eyeing me up and cat calling me when I was a teen and in my early 20s (when I still looked like a teen). I'm in my late 20s with a child now and these creeps don't look at me anymore (thank god).

The numbers I'm talking about don't include the 16-18 sort of grey area.

It's either 18 year olds with 13/14 year olds or older men and girls 15 and below; sometimes (semi regularly), well below.

Bosky · 23/09/2023 06:42

TeenEyeroll · 22/09/2023 14:06

How were the respondents selected for the survey? I find these statistics improbable. I can imagine that if there was any element of self-selection, at any point, it would bias pervier men who jump at any opportunity to think and talk about what gets them off.

For example, if at any point the survey said something like “we will be asking some questions of an intimate and sexual nature, do you agree to continue?” the less pervy men would bail at that point.

I am concerned that this is being used as leverage to get us to agree to outlawing private and encrypted communications and to allow the State to snoop on us - using child protection to scare us into relinquishing our rights to privacy.

"I am concerned that this is being used as leverage to get us to agree to outlawing private and encrypted communications and to allow the State to snoop on us - using child protection to scare us into relinquishing our rights to privacy."

They have effectively done that via the Online Safety Bill, which has been passed and is on its way to receiving Royal Assent. The only things standing in their way are,
a) companies that use encrypted communication, like WhatsApp and Signal, are threatening to withdraw services from the UK, not least because enabling a "backdoor" for the UK Police compromises security of users worldwide, and
b) the technical means to break encryption do not exist, as admitted by Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay.

"UK Online Safety Bill to become law – and encryption busting clause is still there"
Admits it's 'not technically feasible' ... but with no promise not to invoke it
The Register 20 Sept 2023
https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/20/uk_online_safety_bill_passes/

The Times article explicitly links the article in the OP with articles about the Online Safety Bill. From the article:

"The study involving 1,500 British men was carried out by Edinburgh University’s Childlight unit, a research centre that investigates the risk of sexual exploitation of children and young people, and the University of New South Wales, Australia."

"Related Articles" below that one include this one written by Paul Stanfield, chief executive of Childlight:

"Only powerful regulation can end the silent pandemic of online child abuse"
22 Sept 2023
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/only-powerful-regulation-can-end-the-silent-pandemic-of-online-child-abuse-8h3zp05xw

Archive: https://archive.ph/NK1q7

and this one:

"Online Safety Bill approved by House of Lords
20 Sept 2023
The legislation has completed its passage through parliament and is expected to receive royal assent next month
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/online-safety-bill-uk-parliament-law-30m06jdt3

Archive: https://archive.ph/PYB1x

From the Free Speech Union newsletter to members (my bolding):

"UK Parliament finally passes censorial Online Safety Bill"

The UK’s controversial and long-awaited Online Safety Bill, which contains sweeping new surveillance and censorship measures, concluded its final Parliamentary debate on Tuesday and will soon achieve Royal Assent, meaning it will then become law (BBC, Reuters, Times).

The FSU is disappointed that the legislation has been passed. But thanks to our lobbying and campaigning, as well as our members who contacted their MP to express their misgivings about the Bill, the version of reaching the statute books is at least an improvement on earlier versions.

In particular, the obligation on social media companies to “address” so-called ‘legal but harmful’ content, as set out in Clause 13 of the original legislation, has now been removed. Our objection to this clause was essentially that the phrase “address” risked becoming a euphemism for “remove”. If the Government had published a list of legal content it considered harmful to adults and imposed an obligation on social media companies to say how they intended to “address” it, that would have nudged them to remove it. But thanks to the lobbying of the FSU, that obligation has now been dropped.

The new Harmful Communications Offence, which was to replace s127 of the Communications Act, as well as the Malicious Communications Act, and could have seen people jailed for two years for sending or posting a message with the intention of causing “psychological harm amounting to at least serious distress”, has also been scrapped. In other words, the legislation won’t now criminalise saying something, whether online or offline, that causes ‘hurty feelings’, and the FSU deserves most of the credit for that.

In addition, the original duty imposed on social media companies to “have regard” for freedom of expression – which is so undemanding, it’s virtually pointless – has now been bumped up to “have particular regard”, thanks to us.
Finally, we were ahead of the curve in promoting user empowerment as an alternative to the de facto removal of ‘legal but harmful’ content – in the final iteration of the legislation, the locus of responsibility for online safety has shifted from paternalist providers to empowered users. The result is that instead of saying how they intend to “address” harmful content in their terms of service, companies like Facebook and X (formerly Twitter) will now have to say what tools they’re going to make available to their users so they can act as their own content moderators.

It’s important to note that the passage of the Bill onto the statute book is not the end of the story as far as the FSU’s campaigning work goes.

Ofcom’s Chief Executive, Dame Melanie Dawes, this week confirmed that the UK’s new regulator for online safety will shortly be setting out the first set of standards that it expects tech firms to meet when it comes to offering users the option to filter out ‘harmful’ content that they don’t want to see.

The FSU will be watching closely to see how those ‘standards’ end up influencing the user empowerment tools that each social media platform subsequently offers its users.

There is, for instance, a significant risk that the big providers will establish a ‘safe’ mode as their default setting, so that if adult users want to see ‘lawful but awful’ content they will have to ‘opt in’.

That may mean perfectly lawful yet politically contentious views – e.g., an article in the Spectator by a gender critical feminist – will be blocked by default since woke victim groups will argue that any such views constitute incitement to hatred based on their protected characteristics.

Of course, users will have the option of adjusting their settings so they can see that content, but some won’t want to in case, say, a colleague sees something ‘hateful’ over their shoulder and reports them to HR for ‘harassment’.

And what about those who won’t even be aware they have a choice, or are aware but don’t know how to do anything about it?

We know that that’s likely to be a lot of people thanks to research carried out by behavioural scientists on what’s known as ‘choice architecture’ – i.e., the way in which customers are presented with choices will influence their subsequent decision-making. As countless studies in this area have now demonstrated, one of the most powerful tools available to organisations wishing to ‘nudge’ consumers down certain behavioural pathways is the humble ‘default setting’. That’s because consumers tend to be too lazy to revise those settings or don’t know how.

The devil will be in the detail of what each social media platform’s version of ‘safe browsing’ looks like. If a platform’s ‘safe mode’ becomes the default setting, how easy will it be to switch it off? As one recent study put it, “If defaults have an effect because consumers are not aware that they have choices… [they] impinge on liberty.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/only-powerful-regulation-can-end-the-silent-pandemic-of-online-child-abuse-8h3zp05xw

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 08:54

DadJoke · 22/09/2023 17:51

I always get irritated with press releases about surveys where they don't point at the actual data. It doesn't look like this will be released for a while, and may only be released to professionals in the field in any case.

The only information we have about the methodology is that it's "carried out using an anonymised online survey in which men were asked questions about their sexual behaviour." Best case, this might be a carefully selected group broken down by demographics and then reassured that the answers won't be tied to them personally, but if it's self-selecting, it's pretty much useless.

It's entirely possible the stats are exactly as they appear to be, but I'll wait for the report.

I'm in complete agreement with you, here.

Not at all enough information to go on to assess the value of this research. I visited the Childlight website and there's no reference to the study.

Startingagainandagain · 23/09/2023 10:40

@heathspeedwell

''I remember a couple of scary things I have read about on here that may back up this survey.

One was a survey (I think it may have been on students) that asked men if they would rape a woman if they thought they would definitely get away with it. Shockingly one in five men said yes.

And the other sad fact that has stuck in my brain was from when that poor 14 year old girl was gang raped in the US and one of the rapists filmed it and put it on Pornhub. Even though she was a child and it was clearly rape, she couldn't get Pornhub to take it down.

But even more disturbing than that, it was one of the most popular things to watch on Pornhub for ages and I think they estimated that one in five men in the US actively searched for it. ''

This is horrific.

I really don't understand how women and girls' bodies are so easily reduced by men to just being basically objects/toys and how they can justify such violence (or be turned on by it). We truly are a sick society.

As for Pornhub, I don't know why they are still in business.

That's why I always feel so annoyed when I see so many people defending the widespread consumption of pornography online.

They always gloss over the fact that many of these videos are made without women's consent and/or glorify violence against them and twist the views that men have of what sex should look like.

spirit20 · 23/09/2023 10:59

Like all studies, how seriously it can be taken depends on how it was actually conducted, and not just replying on clickbait headlines.

For example: how was the below question phrased that led to the finding 'Almost one in twenty (4.8 per cent) of those surveyed said they had had sexual contact with a child when they themselves were aged 18 or older'. Is this taking into account men who at the age of 18 had a 16/17 year old sexual partner? If so, I would bet the same wording would have led to a similiar % of women saying yes?

How were participants for the study recruited? Was it geared towards recruiting participants who were already using certain services (e.g. sex offender rehabilitation services)?

localnotail · 23/09/2023 12:24

I grew up in another European country in the 80s and can say there was a large number of girls I knew of thats been assaulted, raped etc. It was not in the news much but you heard it through friends - a girl was raped behind garages after a man took her school bag and made her follow him; someone seen someone assaulted on public transport; some guy stuck his hand into friends underpants in cinema etc. I myself had a couple of "near misses" where I literally had to run away from men, terrified; I once was assaulted in public toilet; another time, a man approached a group of us with quite a direct proposition (you touch mine and I touch yours and I will give you money). All these happened before we even reached puberty, 8-11 years old. I must add - we played on our own outside/ went to cinema/ went to visit friends living nearby since around 6 yo, it was considered normal. We were also quite streetwise and suspicious. But the number of men willing to do this kind of shit was huge.

Somanycats · 23/09/2023 12:39

Statistics have got to be a lot better than this to say anything useful. The first study seems to be defining men as over 18, and 'children' as under 18. So in fact these men are still at school and either having sex with or lusting after children in their own class. Of course they bloody are and there is nothing wrong with it - they are peers. DS certainly didn't stop having sex with his girlfriend when he became an adult in the February and she was still a 'child' until may! So he is one of the men who have had sex with a child.
I don't doubt we have a problem with men committing crimes against children but this study is not helping.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 13:06

Somanycats · 23/09/2023 12:39

Statistics have got to be a lot better than this to say anything useful. The first study seems to be defining men as over 18, and 'children' as under 18. So in fact these men are still at school and either having sex with or lusting after children in their own class. Of course they bloody are and there is nothing wrong with it - they are peers. DS certainly didn't stop having sex with his girlfriend when he became an adult in the February and she was still a 'child' until may! So he is one of the men who have had sex with a child.
I don't doubt we have a problem with men committing crimes against children but this study is not helping.

It seems to me that this study has been created in order to support the Bill.

I'm highly sceptical of the purpose and methodology.

DadJoke · 23/09/2023 16:16

It's incredibly hard to gather useful data on this. There is a full fact piece on it, and a large research study from Germany which has its flaws.

No research provides strong support for the online safety bill.

""The provisions in the Online Safety Bill that would enable state-backed surveillance of private communications contain some of the broadest and (most) powerful surveillance powers ever proposed in any Western democracy," lawyers Matthew Ryder and Aidan Wills of Matrix Chambers wrote in a legal opinion.
"No communications in the UK – whether between members of parliament, between whistleblowers and journalists, or between a victim and a victims support charity – would be secure or private.""

https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-men-have-sexual-interest-children/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272150170_How_Common_is_Men%27s_Self-Reported_Sexual_Interest_in_Prepubescent_Children

How many men have a sexual interest in children? - Full Fact

It seems unlikely we’ll ever have a complete picture of how many adults experience sexual feelings towards children, partly because this is something which many people will be uncomfortable discussing

https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-men-have-sexual-interest-children

SemperIdem · 27/09/2023 23:07

Adult men having relationships with young women barely out of their teens is morally questionable in the extreme.

There are studies about how slight age gaps between men and women are essentially biological imperative, 2-4 years.

Bigger age gaps are outliers.

Whyisegg · 28/09/2023 02:42

What these types of study often disregard is that not all those who abuse children are pedofiles. The sad truth is that abuse is carried out against those who are most vulnerable and unable to speak out or protect themselves. The idea that bad things happen because of bad people who exist like villains in a fairytale is nonsense and a false narrative. All human behaviour is learned and no one exists in a vacuum, victims and predators alike. The society we live in is not designed to protect the weak and the innocent, it exists to serve the rich and the powerful, everyone else is just fair game. Divide and conquer applies to every facet of society, because we are many and they are few. The easiest way to control the masses is to give them power and that's what men have - power over women, women they are taught to hate because women can bear children and children apparently are the only way to secure a future. Men are indoctrinated to believe women exist to serve them and are not their equals. The sooner women realise this the sooner they will be liberated.

sashh · 28/09/2023 09:00

RealityFan · 22/09/2023 13:00

Man here. I'm both not surprised yet totally perturbed by this report. Unfortunately the problem is also exacerbated by misogyny. Is it any "worse" than the past? Statistically, maybe, but not clear. Are we more aware of it? Evidently by this article, yes. Are there more avenues for men? Undoubtedly, yes.

For me, the main difference between now and "then", is societal indifference, blurring of boundaries, reduction in custodial sentences, the metastasisation of porn and sex work, and lobby group widening of the thin end.

There is genuinely less social stigma, so if perps or potential perps feel less isolated, less hemmed in, less judged, well, their bad behaviour will worsen and increase. Across the board.

Edited

In my experience it hasn't got worse, I say that as a 50+ year old woman who developed boobs in primary school.

I got a LOT of male attention. But I'd also been, what I now realise was, sexually assaulted at least twice before puberty hit.

Samantha Fox was 16 when she started appearing on p3.

There were countdowns to when young women would become 'legal' for a number of teenage girls.

A lot of men seemed to get a thrill seeing an 11 year old Emma Watson's pants when she sat cross legged in the first HP.

I didn't watch the big brother with Jim Davidson in it but I did watch a clip where he basically talks to another man about being able to rape a young woman because she was drunk / incapacitate and didn't and it was like he gave himself a medal, and the other men nodding along saying how great he had been.

This is old, but interesting reading about the 'countdown clock'

https://medium.com/@yomiadegoke/counting-down-to-female-celebrities-turning-legal-is-more-than-crass-its-dangerous-94f8abbf4674

Counting down to female celebrities “turning legal” is more than crass. It’s dangerous

A radio host was sacked after saying that “the countdown was on” until Olympian Chloe Kim turned 18. Yomi Adegoke looks at the trend

https://medium.com/@yomiadegoke/counting-down-to-female-celebrities-turning-legal-is-more-than-crass-its-dangerous-94f8abbf4674