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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JR of ScotGov's Section 35/GRR bill - next week

135 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 11/09/2023 19:11

MBM have shared info on the 'interveners': Scottish Trans/Equality Network, Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence, and the ICDR:

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/09/11/who-are-the-interveners-in-the-judicial-review-of-the-uk-governments-use-of-section-35/

'Robin Moira White, Adam Wagner, Sam Fowles and Stephanie Davin are also assisting in the proceedings'

Who are the interveners in the judicial review of the UK Government’s use of Section 35? - Murray Blackburn Mackenzie

The judicial review of the UK Government’s decision to invoke Section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 in respect of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill will be heard in the Outer House of the Court of Session in Edinburgh from 19-21 September. La...

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/09/11/who-are-the-interveners-in-the-judicial-review-of-the-uk-governments-use-of-section-35

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Bundlejuice · 12/09/2023 00:47

Just dusting off me Bundle name, take no notice.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2023 00:48
Grin
Boiledbeetle · 12/09/2023 09:01

Bundlejuice · 12/09/2023 00:47

Just dusting off me Bundle name, take no notice.

Looks good. Was it sat all tidy waiting for you or did you have to search through lots of other usernames in order to find the one you were looking for?

I tried to find mine but the list of my usernames is a horrible jumbled mess!

I'll find it round about lunch time..

RandomlyThrownTogether · 12/09/2023 09:02

Morning, all.

BoiledbeetleLovesBeautifullyBoundBundles · 12/09/2023 09:45

No wonder I couldn't find it, someone had been in and tidied it up! It no longer says beautifully binded (it made peoples teeth itch).

Getting back on topic, what possible words/statement etc could these groups possibly have to contribute now that wasn't covered pre Grrrr Bill?

Or is it just to add another layer of 'you are completely horrible Westminster people who want to exterminate trans people, it's just a little bit of paperwork' rubbish?

Or are they somehow going to try to explain why letting people like Isla/Adam into women's spaces is a good idea (despite the fact that Robin had said they think Adam is lying, or words to that effect (I do remember Robin refused to use Isla's preferred pronouns), can't remember quite what Robin said as my comments repeating exactly robins words after the programme where this issue was discussed got deleted by mnhq)

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Bundlejuice · 19/09/2023 10:08

Thank you Arabella, much appreciated.

ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:08

Substantive HearingTuesday, 19 September 2023 (and the following 3 days)

Judge Lady Haldane

  • Agents and Counsel For the petitionersAgents: The Scottish Government Legal Directorate
  • Counsel: The Lord Advocate (Dorothy Bain, KC), Douglas Ross, KC and Paul Reid
  • For the respondentAgents: Office of the Advocate General
  • Counsel: David Johnston, KC, Christopher Pirie, KC and Megan Dewart

A summary of the Procedural Hearing heard on 16 August regarding the Petition of the Scottish Ministers for Judicial Review of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill (Prohibition on Submission for Royal Assent) Order 2023The court allowed adjustments to the Answers for the respondent to be received late. The adjusted petition and adjusted answers are now to be treated as the final documents setting out the parties respective cases.

Case description

The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill was introduced on 2 March 2022. It proposed wide-ranging reforms to the process for obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate in Scotland (a SGRC), which is currently governed by the Gender Recognition Act 2004. This includes: replacing the Gender Recognition Panel with the Registrar General for Scotland; reducing the minimum age of applicants from 18 to 16 years; reducing the current requirement that the applicant have lived in the acquired gender for 2 years to 3 months; and removing the requirement that there be a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria. Applicants who changed gender outside the UK, whether or not within an “approved territory”, are to be treated for all purposes as having a SGRC, except where public policy reasons require otherwise. A SGRC has effect in other parts of the UK only where specific provision has been made to that effect by the respective governments.

The UK Government first raised concerns about the Bill on 19 December 2022. On 22 December the Bill passed. On 17 January 2023, the Secretary of State for Scotland made an order under section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 (see Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill (Prohibition on Submission for Royal Assent) Order 2023). Section 35 empowers the SoS to “intervene in certain cases”, namely where a Bill contains provisions which would “make modifications of the law as it applies to reserved matters and which the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law as it applies to reserved matters”. The effect was to prevent the Bill being submitted for Royal Assent. Schedule 1 of the Order identifies the particular provisions which the SoS considers falls foul of section 35. Schedule 2 and a Policy Statement of Reasons sets out the SoS’s reasoning. In short, the SoS considers that the Bill creates two distinct and parallel regimes across the UK; increases the potential for fraudulent applications with a consequent impact on the safety of women; and impacts upon the operation of the Equality Act 2010, the effect of obtaining a GRC being that the person has the protected characteristic of their acquired sex. Further impacts upon reserved matters are said to be on the administration of tax, benefit and State pensions managed by integrated systems across the UK that span reserved and devolved functions. The reserved matters to which the law applies in that respect are “fiscal policy” and “social security”.

The petition for judicial review of the Order seeks its reduction. The petitioners contend that the requirements of section 35 are not met. First, the alleged adverse effects of the Bill are founded upon material errors of law. Secondly, the SoS’s concerns are unsupported by evidence and thus irrational. Thirdly, irrelevant considerations were taken into account; in particular, policy differences and disagreements between the Scottish Parliament and UK Government. Fourthly, the SoS gave inadequate reasons in Schedule 2 for making the Order. In any event, the reasons contained in that schedule and in the Policy Statement are irrational. The UK Government submits that Schedule 2 and the Policy Statement provide adequate reasons for making the Order. The Order was within the range of reasonable responses available to the SoS in light of the adverse effects that he identified. Even if the Order was unlawful, there is no substantial prejudice to the petitioners such that the Order requires to be reduced.

The court has granted leave to four interveners to lodge written submissions.

The first to third interveners comprise LGBTQ+ and trans-led charities, as well as a researcher on constitutional issues. Their joint intervention will provide: international comparators, where similar measures have been adopted, to demonstrate that the SoS’s concerns are unwarranted; evidence to refute the SoS’s concerns about the adverse effects on the operation of the 2010 Act; and parliamentary materials highlighting the standard of scrutiny to be applied by the court and that the power under section 35 is one of last resort.

The fourth intervener is also a charity operating the only trans-specific human rights project (which promotes equal rights in Scotland in relation to gender identity and reassignment). They contend that: the Order is inadequately reasoned; the reasons assert facts without, or contrary to, relevant evidence; and that the SoS conflated a section 104 order, which he could have utilised to make consequential modifications to the Bill by means of subordinate legislation, with a section 35 order. It follows that the decision to make a section 35 order was irrational.

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:11

Dorothy Bain KC on just now.

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:15

Most of Bain's speech so far has been constitutional, and laying out whther the Bill is within competence, separation of powers etc.

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:17

Excellent, Tribunal Tweets are live tweeting:

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1704057005596405858

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1704057005596405858

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vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 19/09/2023 10:24

I'm trying to watch it but the link is only giving me them setting up the room and then blank page about don't record. I'm blaming Nicola Sturgeon for that.

ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:25

Oh, that's odd. It's showing for me, on the link I posted above. Maybe try clearing cookies/cache, or something?

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:25

'It's a veto on the grounds of policy disagreement'

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:26

Bain is referring to Cherry's prorogation of Parliament.

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:26
  • sorry, Cherry's challenge to prorogation!
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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:29

paraphrasing: DB: This is a political issue and therefore inappropriate for the courts to intervene.

'The SA allows veto that goes against the separation of powers. Parliamentary accountability is a constit principle that recently made clear in para 46. Having largely transferred powers to the SG and constit means parl responsibility [missed] UK govt veto shouldnt be allowed' (tribunal tweets)

It's all about the technicality of whether a Section 35 is workable/appropriate/legal.

I'm hoping we're going to get some emotional support animals at some point.

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:33

Comment from Cherry:

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1704063532063478016

'Whilst it’s gratifying to hear the Cherry prorogation case quoted in support of the important constitutional principles of Separation of Powers & Parliamentary accountability.'
'I don’t think these principles are in play here. This case is going to be about whether Alastair Jack’s exercise of the s.35 veto was reasonable in the circumstances. Imho lord advocate is clutching at straws with Cherry. If you will pardon the mixed metaphor'

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1704063532063478016

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 10:34

You can also follow https://twitter.com/hashtag/Section35?src=hashtag_click&f=live

On Twitter, #Section35

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Section35?f=live&src=hashtag_click

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ArabeIIaScott · 19/09/2023 11:21

DB: 'an increase in numbers [of GRC holders] is a problem'

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