JR of ScotGov's Section 35/GRR bill - next week

[ArabeIIaScott]

MBM have shared info on the 'interveners': Scottish Trans/Equality Network, Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence, and the ICDR:

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/09/11/who-are-the-interveners-in-the-judicial-review-of-the-uk-governments-use-of-section-35/

'Robin Moira White, Adam Wagner, Sam Fowles and Stephanie Davin are also assisting in the proceedings'

LH: 'the consequences [of obtaining a GRC using the new Scottish Bill] for the individual, subjectively, are the same, but objectively, the wider impacts, are different'

paraphrase

DB: 'the Sec of State has not properly understood the law ... he's just wrong'

BBC are live reporting, too:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66842504

'This case will hinge on the proper interpretation of Section 35 of the Scotland Act, which sets out the conditions under which the Scottish Secretary can veto a Holyrood bill.
The Scottish government is arguing that this power is narrowly defined, and should only be used in very specific circumstances.
Dorothy Bain KC, the Scottish government's Lord Advocate, says it was never intended to be used to settle a policy dispute - although the UK government insist their concerns are strictly legal ones.
What makes this case difficult is the complete lack of precedent.
There has never been a case testing the interpretation of S35 - so there is no case law or prior judgement to look to, in terms of understanding what an “adverse impact” on reserved law might be, or what could constitute “reasonable grounds”.
The lawyers and indeed the judge are in uncharted territory here - which also means this case will SET precedents, and could even have a impact on the balance of powers between Holyrood and Westminster.'

Philip Sim, BBC.

'the purpose of this bill is to change the procedure of obtaining a GRC ... to make it simpler ... '
'the intention of this bill is that it should be different, it should allow more people to apply'

Lady Haldane. paraphrased.

I'm confused at how DB is apparently arguing that this Bill doesn't actually change anything. What the fuck is it for if it doesn't change anything?

Hearteningly I feel that Lady Haldane is a bit confused, too.

Unfortunately, D Bain seems very certain.

Dorothy Bain KC, the Scottish government's Lord Advocate, says it was never intended to be used to settle a policy dispute

Then why are Stonewall et al. involved in this case?

Jeez, that whole article is a dystopian nightmare, let's hope it never comes to pass.

IANAL but the whole show case so far seems to be a masterclass in doublethink and holding two contradictory positions at once.

https://twitter.com/lnmackenzie1/status/1704081201043042702

'The Lord Advocate has cited the Stonewall submission three times in the first 90 minutes of her oral submission' - Lisa Mackenzie

Is DB basing her whole case on Stonewall law?

DB: 'an increase in numbers [of GRC holders] is a problem'

The reality of course is that the problem comes from expanding the cohort of people far beyond those for whom the GRA was enacted. Especially when no one knows the characteristics of such people. (That's "no one knows" in the Three Wise Monkeys sense.)

I think the confusing nature of the arguments reflect the fact that the Scottish Govt are trying to use the Section 35 to force a court showdown with Westminster.

Nobody really cares about the effects of the GRR Bill, and haven't even really given them much consideration. Bain has outsourced her arguments from Stonewall, a lobby group.

The GRR Bill in this instance is a McGuffin. A plot device.

What they didn't think through is the ridiculous assertion that this only impacts on trans people, omitting that changing the definition of sex affects absolutely everyone.

DB is suggesting the UK gov are presenting it as a 'software issue'.

That's so fucking disingenuous.

Ignoring all of the issues raised repeatedly by women and legal experts. That's an insult, Dorothy Bain.

Lady Haldane brings up ForWomen Scotland's upcoming appeal. 'this case might need to be re argued if the law changes again w the FWS case.'

this woman is lulling me into a deep sleep.

BBC analysis:

'There can hardly be a more fundamental issue than what it means to be a man or a woman.
Judge Lady Haldane, in civilian attire rather than robe and wig as this is a civil not a criminal case, is familiar with the topic, having issued a hotly-debated ruling about the definition of sex last year.
But the Lord Advocate Dorothy Bain KC, representing the Scottish government, says these proceedings are different.
The court, she says, is not being asked to rule on whether changes to gender law approved by Holyrood “could or should have been different or better.”
Rather, argues Ms Bain, the issue is whether or not the Scottish Secretary Alister Jack overstepped his constitutional authority in deciding to block the bill.
She argues that he did. The UK government obviously disagrees, as we will hear from its counsel, David Johnston KC, in the coming days.
But whatever happens here, in the airy, wood-panelled courtroom number one of Edinburgh’s Parliament House, is unlikely to be the end of the matter.
An appeal to a panel of three judges in what is known as the Inner House of the Court of Session may well follow.
And, given that the case hinges on the unprecedented use of a provision of the Scotland Act which established devolution, it would be odd indeed if it did not end up before the UK Supreme Court in London.'

So this is going to drag on for ages, costing us all many thousands of pounds.

Fantastic. That's what we need - fuck the roads, ferries, schools and hospitals!

Priorities 🤷‍♀️

Ignoring the money issue for a second, hopefully we'll all be at the old peoples home by the time this finishes winding its way through the courts . The one good thing is if it takes ages it can't come into law!

I expect you may get your wish, Beetle. It's all showboating. The Scotgov don't really want independence anymore, they just need to occasionally show the semblance of 'fighting' Westminster. They'll be quite hppy for it to drag on while the country goes down the tubes.

I expect we'll see an election before this is resolved.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/09/dorothy-bain-incompetent-or-corrupt/

'The Lord Advocate is a political appointment. It is a ministerial position in Scotland. Why did Nicola Sturgeon appoint the unionist Dorothy Bain to the position? At the time of the appointment last year, it was already known that the certification of the Referendum Bill as legal would be a crucial task for the new Lord Advocate.Why on earth not appoint a nationalist who would certify?

The answer is simple. Nicola Sturgeon is much more interested in identity politics than in Independence. Bain’s job is to see the justice system through these changes all of which are the highest priority on Sturgeon’s agenda:

1. Abolition of jury trials in sex assault cases
2. Establishment of misogyny as a hate crime and prosecution of sexist speech as a criminal offence
3. Reform of Gender Recognition Act
4. Abolition of “Not proven” verdict and conforming Scottish system to the English model
5. Continued clampdown prosecutions on “extremist” independence supporters and republicans, using breach of the peace, harassment, threatening communication, contempt etc etc.

Those are Bain’s tasks. That is the agenda for which Sturgeon selected her.'

Craig Murray.

It may not drag on forever. Here is an extract from today's Telegraph:

"However, SNP sources told The Telegraph he may not appeal to the UK Supreme Court if the Court of Session delivers a clear rejection of his case."

Bain says there is "no credible evidence" from other countries that have a system of self ID of a risk of "systemic risk" of predatory men identifying as women to perpetuate violence against women and asks why the Sec of State thinks otherwise - Mandy Rhodes

https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1704097975939612713

I do hope nobody mentions Andrew Miller. Or Isla Bryson. Or Katie Dolatowski.

Those aren't 'other countries', of course. They are all Scottish examples.