National Trust AGM

[PRAMtran]

I’ve received an email from the National Trust inviting me and all other members to vote in their AGM. Does anyone know if there are any things a woman’s rights advocate should vote for or against. Eg TWAW by stealth.

Slavery is very much part of much of all of that.

*MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · Today 18:39

@TheHoover it seems you and other contributors in the thread can't tell the difference between "tell us about this house/the family in the context of this historical event" and "tell us about this historical event". Many of us want more of the former, and not the latter.*

no, this notion is a straw man that you and other contributors to this thread have set up and have yet to back up with a single example of where this has happened.

" Strawman" seems to be the practiced response of some to the challenges and critiques of others. What that means, in other words, is your perspective is false and meaningless, but I haven;t got the werewithal to analyse it.

@TheHoover the post directly above yours is telling us that slavery is "very much" a part of all of the things I suggested that many people want to hear about. So that poster is telling us we should hear about slavery and not the history of the estate, the provenance of the contents of the house etc. It is not a straw man.

The original house can be left to decay.

A replica without all of the inherent problems that preserving old buildings would be much cheaper to maintain. No woodworm, no rotten timbers, no structural unsound brick work, no subsidence, no damp, no dodgy electrics, proper air con, no asbestos and full disabled access built in.

Yes, bored is exactly how I feel when faced with the same statements repeated over and over again. There’s never any willingness to engage in debate or acknowledgment of the existence of other viewpoints. A peculiar type of fixed mindset, which brooks no dissent has overtaken some people and they seem to view discussion as inherently dangerous. I wonder why? I suppose if you’re a true believer in a particular cult you cannot permit other voices?

Another thing that I find sad is the complete absence of humour in certain sections of society. Scolding and patronising others seems to be their main (only?) form of social interaction. Do these types ever crack a smile? They never seem to relax either - too many of us to patronise I suppose, so their work is never done. Goodness, someone please stop me before I begin feeling too sorry for these oddbods 🤣

Slavery is the Provence of the house and contents in many cases.

Who do you think picked the cotton in the tapestries?

Of course it isn't!

I think some of the posters here have been acting simply as chippy provaceteurs, in occupy some very predictable positions that have been imbibed wholesale from Critical Social justice manuals

provocateurs

@RebelliousCow

I believe that the history represented at a NT property should exactly be in the context of the building. Not for it’s own sake.

could I be clearer than that?

which makes @MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving’s post is as clear a straw man as you will ever see.

You are very clear in what your position is - and many people disagree. Is that clear?

Idiocy is only being shown on one side of this “debate”. Can you hear yourself straw-manning for all you’re worth? Grown ups debate what others are saying. They don’t make shit up and then scold everyone else for their fictional abhorrent beliefs.

I’m not sure how to make this simple enough for you to understand? Do you think you are debating? I promise you you’re not.

I'm so bored of it. I'm so bored of the creeping Americanisation of our culture.

I posted this on the white feminism thread but I've just finished This is Not America - why black lives in Britain matter by Tomiwa Owolade and it's a great critique and explains very clearly why we can't just transpose US ideology to the U.K. because it simply doesn't fit.

That sounds interesting.

Who do you think mined the minerals in the computer you are typing on, or use for work? Where do you think the clothes and plastic do-dads you use will go to?

Probably the same as the rest of us, because we are all enmeshed in the economy and society we were born in, and live and work in.

Maybe though we don't need to point a finger at you every moment and accuse you of living of the wok of exploited slaves?

Or maybe we should?

I was under the impression most old tapestries were made from wool and/or silk. So not as relevant to the Atlantic slave trade as you imply.

@RebelliousCow being challenged on your views is one thing; being challenged on something you don’t believe that someone has said to make you seem extreme or preposterous is a straw man.

Relevant current thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4891201-oh-kew-not-you-too

Can you name a single NT property that is telling the story of slavery “in depth”
a a the expense of some of these other histories?

Why don’t you answer the questions put to you? Is it a playground game? You don’t answer any questions but pose dozens? I don’t think I’ve played this game since primary school 🤔🙄

Can you name a single NT property that is telling the story of slavery “in depth”
a a the expense of some of these other histories?

I agreed with the general principle of the comment. Ask the poster who made it?

The mindset of slavery being involved in everything in the NT is clearly demonstrated by @DatumTarum who wants to link it to historical tapestries under the mistaken impression that cotton was involved in their production. They were usually made from wool (British) and sometimes silk (probably Chinese but often spun and woven in England). A perfect example of trying to shoehorn slavery into a topic where it doesn’t belong.

In a previous post you also said your own child is exposed to 'queer' in school. I am not particularly surprised by this, just horrified that you see no problem with it.

Children need solid boundaries that are not transgressed or 'queered'. Children need normal and they need those around them to know what is normal and what is not.

Queer theory is incompatible with safeguarding children.

If you dismiss anyone who takes issue with queer theory as a 'conservative' then you are handing child safeguarding to the right. Are you sure you want to do that?

on the part of conservatives
How to tell us you have no clue about most of the posters on the thread.

Pissed-off lefties or centrists, a lot of us.

This seems an unexpected pivot to France. Is Provence the French region most renowned for involvement in the slave trade?

I would have presumed it would be one of France's former overseas territories, like Haiti, but I know next to nothing about French history.

@DatumTarum said that they went to see a magnificent garden in a greenhouse in an unnamed NT property.

I shall quote as I don't wish to malign unfairly:

What is so terrible about reading an info board in a beautiful NT garden (and I've seen this) which states that, many of the beautiful plants you can see here were brought over from the sugar plantation which the family owned and provided much of their wealth, an est 3,000 enslaved people died at that plantation.

90% of 'exotic' plants in NT greenhouses were brought over by Victorian plant hunters - enthusiastic women and men who travelled the globe in search of new flora. Well after the slave trade ended.

Apparently the poster is an archaeologist, much like you are a museum curator perhaps?

Anyone can say anything on the internet.

I don't pretend to be a professional in anything plant or history related but I do know most of the exotic temperate plants we have in the U.K. were brought here by Victorian enthusiasts.