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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who denies existence?

7 replies

mopoji · 30/08/2023 11:56

Do transwomen exist? Of course they do. And it follows from their very existence that they are - one and all - men.

Why so?

... Because, to begin with, humans can't change sex. So, if a transwoman is a man who has changed sex (and given that men are human(!)), there can be no such thing as a transwoman. (But there is ...)

Contraposing, and equivalently, if transwomen exist, and a transwoman is a man who has changed sex, then it is possible for a human to change sex. But humans can't change sex. So there are no transwomen. (But there are ...)

Of course, if a transwoman isn't a man who has changed sex but just a man who would like to change sex, this argument won't work.

So what follows? - Just that if you believe transwomen exist, you have to believe transwomen are men. To claim transwomen are women is to claim transwomen don't exist. Just logic.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 30/08/2023 13:03

I agree. Whenever I read words along the line of 'you're denying my existence!' I inwardly roll my eyes and think 'well obviously you, a person, exist - just not as woman, you wassock!'

teawamutu · 30/08/2023 13:43

I keep this awesome tweet on hand for just such hyperbole.

Who denies existence?
mopoji · 30/08/2023 16:57

... And a reasonable response to "TWAW" is thus, "What! ... You are saying transwomen don't even exist?!"

OP posts:
Slothtoes · 30/08/2023 17:16

I’m following for tips here. That’s a great response!

stealtheatingtunnocks · 30/08/2023 17:32

Make it make sense. Someone must be able to make it make sense?

willingtolearn · 30/08/2023 17:51

I don't think 'trans...' exists as an objective concept. You cannot define it clearly or with agreement across different groups.

It's an impossibility - you cannot 'trans' from one sex to another.

What exists are individuals who do not fit gender stereotypes in the clothes they wear, or the roles they play, their personalities or even their haircut.

I would like a 'trans' person to tell me how they are trans and why I am not. I suspect it will be simply 'because I say so'

For me trans is just normal individual difference trying to claim special status in order to gain more than others.

nepeta · 30/08/2023 18:12

Sometimes I see that argument as a form of DARVO, because what is actually happening is the linguistic erasure of the female sex as a class which shares certain political interests due to misogyny and sexism targeting them on the basis of sex.

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