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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girls missing out again

121 replies

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 08:40

DD applied for a Head Girl position at the end of term and all candidates were emailed wi5h the results a few nights ago.

2 boys appointed as Head Boys, out of the girl candidates, 4 were chosen as prefects.

Apparently, a pupil complained that the Head Boy Head Girl label was discriminatory against pupils who didn't identify as such. But, it's the girls who miss out yet again, isn't it. DD's Instagram group is filled with messages of "see, boys are superior" and the old shit starts up again.

Fed up of all this shit affecting our daughters. Out of the candidates that were female were some pretty outstanding characters so I have absolutely idea why this decision has been allowed. Apparently, it was a student vote but moderated by staff.

DD is in a big standard mixed comprehensive school in a bog standard type town.

Any advice before I tackle this?

OP posts:
FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 08:52

So, to re-cap: out of 8 capable and excellent young women, not one received the position of Head Girl.

The pupil who complained didn't even apply.

2 Head Boys.

DD is really gutted - wanted to have the chance to represent her school in her final year and be a voice for pupils. She accepts that other girls may have had the position over her, but is baffled that the school did y choose a female. She's drafted an email stating that the decision is sexist but wants her letter to be more powerful.

OP posts:
StinkerTroll · 24/08/2023 08:56

My dds school do this as well, 2 head pupils, we got the opposite, 2 head girls

CorylusAgain · 24/08/2023 08:56

Do you mean that there are 2 positions titled "head boy" or that the school removed the boy/girl element and there are 2 'head student' roles both filled by boys

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 08:57

Wow I've never come across this before - usually there's always one head boy and one head boy regardless of the quality of nominees. (Quality not a great word but yswim).

I've even worked in boys' schools who take on a small proportion of girls at sixth form and there's still always one of each (but usually more male prefects than female to reflect proportions).

I'm sure your dd won't be the only one complaining. It seems a very controversial decision for them to make.

The non-binary thing is irrelevant here (as I interpret the situation) as neither of the head boys claim to be non binary. So I wouldn't include it in dd's complaint

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 08:57

*one head boy and one head girl, I meant to type! Typing in a hurry lol

TeenDivided · 24/08/2023 08:59

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 08:57

*one head boy and one head girl, I meant to type! Typing in a hurry lol

You could have used the new Edit feature!

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:00

CorylusAgain · 24/08/2023 08:56

Do you mean that there are 2 positions titled "head boy" or that the school removed the boy/girl element and there are 2 'head student' roles both filled by boys

I'm not sure how they're going to word the titles, but in years gone by, it's always been Head Girl and Head Boy. One girl a few years back objected to the gendered label and asked for a 'Head Student' badge but both sexes have always been represented in the choice in years gone by.

DD's messages are full of smug boys 'just having banter' that girls are inferior.

Ffs.

OP posts:
Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:00

TeenDivided · 24/08/2023 08:59

You could have used the new Edit feature!

Very true haha tech laggard here as always

Dabralor · 24/08/2023 09:04

That's horrendous OP. What a message to be sending out to all those girls.

CorylusAgain · 24/08/2023 09:08

I would support your dd and hopefully other girls in writing a clear response to the Head or chair of governors. The disparity in pay and representation in senior roles between the sexes is real, and if schools opt out of addressing it they are failing half their students

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:09

We're collecting some gcse results today as well - leaving in an hour - want to speak to someone want to be precise and to the point.

Sat here still fuming and can't put a proper thought together apart from "FFS not this bollocks again".

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Aquaphant · 24/08/2023 09:10

The election results don't seem to be related to the complaint about gendered titles. Are you perhaps just feeling upset because your daughter didn't get the votes you feel she's entitled to?

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:12

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:00

I'm not sure how they're going to word the titles, but in years gone by, it's always been Head Girl and Head Boy. One girl a few years back objected to the gendered label and asked for a 'Head Student' badge but both sexes have always been represented in the choice in years gone by.

DD's messages are full of smug boys 'just having banter' that girls are inferior.

Ffs.

Quoting those in the complaint would have weight.

For max impact, avoid anything theoretical/political and focus on the impact on the actual cohort

sashagabadon · 24/08/2023 09:14

Definitely complain. Categories especially sex categories exist for a reason.Sex categories are by definition “inclusive “ to ensure both boys and girls are represented. Removing sex categories is a type of sex discrimination and as we can see results in 2 x head boys! 50% of the school not represented by their sex class.
non binary kids still have a sex of male / female so can apply in their sex category

DrivingCadillacsInOurDreams · 24/08/2023 09:17

I think you could use the notion of 'perpetuating the myths'... males are seen to be more valuable than females etc.
Could also talk about how only views of the boys will be heard, so the school will never be made aware of issues that impact the girls.

It's odd they haven't gone for 'Head Student', they could have avoided so many negative connotations!

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:18

All of these theoretical arguments won't convince them. It's basically the all-women shortlist question: lots of people (not me) would argue you should select people on their merit only. So you won't win them over as they have made their decision ideologically in the first place.

But if you point out the tangible harms they've caused (namely the sexist msgs from dd's male classmates) that'll be way harder for them to refute.

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:21

Aquaphant · 24/08/2023 09:10

The election results don't seem to be related to the complaint about gendered titles. Are you perhaps just feeling upset because your daughter didn't get the votes you feel she's entitled to?

Not at all.
Female pupils aren't being represented in 2 Head Boys.

I know all the female candidates - any one of them are outstanding role models.

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Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:22

(I may be biased because I have an extremely low opinion of Assistant Heads, who I'm sure will be behind this. When I first started teaching, the role barely existed anywhere and now schools are overrun with them and they cause so much damage with their spurious politically-driven initiatives and innovations. Rant over)

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:22

As for merit, much of the "inferiority banter' is coming from the bloody Head Boys.

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Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:23

What I'm saying is, your average Assistant Head will not be able to follow your theoretical arguments. Don't bother. But tangible harms, they can and must address

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:23

FedUpOfAllThisBollocks · 24/08/2023 09:22

As for merit, much of the "inferiority banter' is coming from the bloody Head Boys.

Screenshot and send them with the complaint.

Justme56 · 24/08/2023 09:24

As a result of this decision the girls are now receiving sexist comments. Are the boys who didn’t get positions getting called inferior - highly unlikely? In any other situation would this be acceptable. The school need to be informed on what is going on - they created the problem and they need to deal with it.

CorylusAgain · 24/08/2023 09:25

Mummy08m · 24/08/2023 09:23

Screenshot and send them with the complaint.

Absolutely.
Tangible evidence of the impact their decision has had.

Codlingmoths · 24/08/2023 09:25

Tell them you are sure they are expecting this so it won’t be a surprise that the parents and student s are communicating to the wider community that the school doesn’t support its girls, doesn’t feel the need to have girls represented at key levels , thinks the school captain positions are best held by all boys. say the optics are very clear and you’re going to put in a complaint of course but can’t not mention it, although you assume it’s a deliberate decision to treat girls as second class citizens. That if you had your time again you would send dd somewhere else and many other parents see this toxic masculinity for what it is too.

marmite2023 · 24/08/2023 09:28

For this reason, I don’t understand why they have a school vote. It’s a popularity contest. I would allow campaigning and voting for nomination and then I would have a balanced board representing teachers, SLT, pupil year reps (ie students), and possibly governors, to make the final selection based on merit.

How sad that the successful boys are being so unpleasant.