Girls missing out again

[FedUpOfAllThisBollocks]

DD applied for a Head Girl position at the end of term and all candidates were emailed wi5h the results a few nights ago.

2 boys appointed as Head Boys, out of the girl candidates, 4 were chosen as prefects.

Apparently, a pupil complained that the Head Boy Head Girl label was discriminatory against pupils who didn't identify as such. But, it's the girls who miss out yet again, isn't it. DD's Instagram group is filled with messages of "see, boys are superior" and the old shit starts up again.

Fed up of all this shit affecting our daughters. Out of the candidates that were female were some pretty outstanding characters so I have absolutely idea why this decision has been allowed. Apparently, it was a student vote but moderated by staff.

DD is in a big standard mixed comprehensive school in a bog standard type town.

Any advice before I tackle this?

You just know that the student who complained about the roles being discriminatory in the first place was a girl though.

I suppose it’s impossible that the boys just had better applications and gained more votes then?!

Perhaps the school have decided on two Head Pupils rather than HAVING to choose one of each gender? My old school I noticed on a recent visit does have a head boy and girl at the moment but sure are referred to as Head Pupils or something similar.

I suppose it’s impossible that the boys just had better applications and gained more votes then?!

It's possible, but if it's causing a load of messages about girls being inferior, it seems unlikely. A good leader would not be allowing thst to go on.

Screenshot those SM comments. They will want evidence. This is toxic masculinity being demonstrated and the school has facilitated it. They should be ashamed.

This is part of the pretence that girls and boys do not exist as separate types of human with very different experiences and needs. These differences become acutely apparent in adolescence and the way to deal with that is not to pretend that the differences don't exist - that just brushes problems under the carpet and makes it harder to talk positively about those differences- but to acknowledge those differences and to deal with any problems that arise because of them head on.

If pupil leaders are to represent the school and the interests of the pupils in that school, then it is vital that there is a head pupil of each sex, so that both sets of pupils know that that they have a chance of being a leader, whatever the social battles between the sexes, and because it is then clear that the school actually understands that the two sexes are different and that the different interests of both need to be represented.

I would imagine the derogatory statements from the new head boys would render them unsuitable for the role as bringing the school into disrepute through non inclusive values/bullying

Can you screen shot some of the 'banter' as evidence of the consequences of decisions like this?

Oh god, I'm so sorry, should have read the thread first. Cancel the cheque.

Tell her to reply to the boys saying they aren't superior but just so overly sensitive to their poor egos and how powerful women are becoming that they need to keep doing things like this to make themselves feel better.
This has really annoyed me, girls again are being made invisible

I would definitely say that 'banter ' makes them not good head boy candidates!

I can’t take this Head Boy/Girl thing seriously at all. I think it’s a terrible way to socialise kids. We should be educating kids out of this mindset of some people are better/more important than others, not educating them into it. 100 kids get to feel inferior all so that three of four kids and their parents can get a nice ego boost, and the school gets to pretend it’s a little Eton.

Seriously? They will have bosses and colleagues etc their whole life, this is basic societal structure. Or do you want them to go live off grid and declare themselves an independent sovereignty?

I would tell the school that the message they are giving both boys and girls is that (1) girls are inferior and don’t deserve representation (2) when issues of gender identity raise their heads, girls must lose out and suck that up. Neither of these messages will promote inclusivity. Their approach is divisive and wrong.

I also agree with this but I think op needs to pick her battles at this point.

At my current school, the head boy girl pair are invited to give regular whole-school assemblies. More than one a term. Last year's pair gave the most banal, trite-slogan filled assemblies ever, full of meaningless abstract concepts, giving "wordly" advice to the younger students about how "time is transient" or "success is personal", peppered with endless anecdotes of their "life experiences" - they had no life experiences, they didn't even know they'd been born.

In my day (haha) head boy/girl was purely used as an unpaid labour, giving tours to parents and suchlike. Prefects were used to supervise younger students' prep time in the evenings or supervise the cleaning rota. (Those were the good old days when students had to contribute to cleaning the lunch hall!)

Now it's done to boost egos and borderline oxbridge candidates' applications

@Codlingmoths

Seriously? They will have bosses and colleagues etc their whole life, this is basic societal structure. Or do you want them to go live off grid and declare themselves an independent sovereignty?

Yes, their whole ADULT life. And those adults will be skilled indivudal who have rightly gained influence by excelling in their respective fields - whether it be medicine, law, technology, science, education or whatever.

It won’t be some kid on the basis that he/she is a bit more more extroverted and popular you and/or did better in his Year 9 Maths test thanks to his daddy buying him a private tutor.

The whole point of school for me is that is where young people should be allowed to develop in a relatively stress free space, experiment with their talents and think creatively. Away from the arbitrary judgements and popularity contests that increasingly define the talent vacuum that is our political system. These Head Kid popularity contests with appointed “peer leaders” based on arbitrary criteria is literally the worst thing you could possibly do to kids.

If it was a student vote, how is this an issue with the school. It’s always been the same at schools, students make the decisions with regards to prefects and head boy/girl. You’re creating issues where there isn’t one, you can’t influence the voting of the individual students.

The school could set it up as vote for one boy candidate and one girl candidate. 2 posts, 2 separate elections. It is very much an issue with the school.

Apparently, a pupil complained that the Head Boy Head Girl label was discriminatory against pupils who didn't identify as such.

So... they just need to make it 'head pupil' (female) and 'head pupil' (male). That's fully inclusive, accurate and fair. If sixth formers don't understand what the words female and male mean and that they're immutable, then they need some remedial biology lessons.

I would a formal compliant in to the school especially if it was a student vote. Boys will always win that

I agree that in the current climate this is probably what needs to happen, but the words boy and girl also refer to the immutable characteristic of sex in humans and the fact that some people have decided to instead use those same words to describe a concept of gender identity doesn't change that.

There are other words to describe concepts of gender identity and gender, we shouldn't support the co-option/removal of sex based language.

This is appalling. WTF did the school think it was doing? Definitely complain

Statistically, if sex is removed as a criteria, males consistently tend to win, even when they are, by any objective assessment, the lesser candidate. This is why women's only short lists exist. I hate them, but also think they are clearly necessary. There are a million examples in politics and business.

OP - I think you should point out to the school that representation matters and that choosing to have two heads, and allowing them both to be boys, is massively disadvantaging the girls and removing their voices.

But be prepared to be told you're being ridiculous. Our high school has both but it's always the boy FIRST. On everything. And it drives me mad. But I'm consistently told I'm being ridiculous.

Arguably the Head Boys, if they’re posting and sharing these messages, should be stripped of their titles – when I was a prefect in the dark ages before internet there was a code of conduct, surely half the point of a head/prefect system is those students set the standard.

Yes, I also think you should complain to the school. I would also get your DD to let the other girls know what you are doing so and why.

I can't understand what the school's reasoning is - surely they can see that they have insulted and diminished their female pupils, in the eyes of their peers and younger pupils?

It's almost funny - we don't want to be [whatever not saying boy and girl is meant to be - inclusive?]....by removing the opportunity from girls full stop.

At my DCs school, the Head Boy and Head Girl both gave a speech at the school Open Day for the new intake of year 7s. Both students were articulate, confident and very impressive - it gave them a public speaking opportunity and a chance to shine and develop. Worth having for both boys and girls.

It teaches them about leadership and the value of consistent effort, kindness, trustworthiness. We need to spend more time reassuring children that they can't win every time and to not give up, and time educating those that are not ever going to get those positions that it's ok and not everyone is suited for that and success doesn't always mean a position of power.

It would be much better balanced if it went back to a single 'head student' IMO.

I'd definitely be sending screen shots of the chat to the head, even if you blur out the names. Not about getting people in trouble (if your daughter is nervous to) but just to show the consequence and seriousness of it.