Off Air Fi and Jane

[Wetteatowel]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/podcasts/off-air-with-jane-and-fi

Anyone else listen to this? I used to love Fi and Jane (especially Jane in the old Women’s Hour days) but have been disappointed by the lack of honest conversations about women and the negative impact of trans rights.

Sharon didn’t hold back and was so strong and clear. Fi seemed very uncertain but I hope it made her think.

I haven’t heard this. But I remember both Jane and Jenny Murray always being balanced on WH. The new presenters are v good in there coverage too IMO.

agree they are both disappointing so much so that I have stopped listening to them. I tried their times radio show for a couple of weeks ( which was better than mariella at least) but now don’t bother and haven’t missed it
i think for Jane at least she listens to her adult daughters too much. Her comment about the younger generation thinking differently is just wrong. Her kids might do (20 something s) but the generation below definitely don’t ime.

Jenni Murray spoke at FiLiA in 2021 & it was clear then just how much she’d been muzzled by the BBC.

Listened up to the end of Sharron Davies - she’s so good!

I keep thinking about Andrew Neil’s born-again terfiness, and the amazing TV panel programme he could do on the subject. He should invite Peter Tatchell and India Willoughby and Billy Bragg and Owen Jones etc., and tell them for every TRA refusal he gets he’ll invite another GC guest on instead. There are so many amazing articulate voices on one side, and so horribly few on the other.

Same IME.

11 year old thinks it’s all a crock of shit. It’s a millenial/older zoomer thing.

Younger zoomers and alphas are like ‘those people are bonkers, I’m off to hang out with my terfy Gen X mum/nan because they’ll shout at the pervy men who intrude in my changing room’

In my experience Jane Garvey was a real fence-sitter and the new presenters are noticeably worse. There was a brief period of improvement when Emma Barnett was in the WH chair but she's currently on maternity leave and might not return. (I have no special knowledge about this, this is just me thinking about worse-case.)

I agree, mine are 15 and 17 and really very cynical about it all. I think I was still in the #be kind phase a couple of years ago when my DD was ranting about a TikTok where a trans woman was talking about their terrible period pains. The ideology impacts their life far more than mine on a day to day basis because of school (gender neutral toilets, some students regularly switching names and pronouns and then requiring everyone to comply)

I always turn off when these two come on Times Radio, maybe I'll give this interview a try though.

I mentioned this on another thread recently - my early to mid teens are totally over this ideology. They attend a CofE school (not our first choice, no other state options in our area) and I think they see the insistence on pronouns etc in much the same way as they see the insistence on the teachings of Jesus - ie more stuff that the grown ups are trying to force on them. They're fed up of the pandering to trans and nb kids with their multiple changes of name and pronoun, sometimes even within the same week, and the policing of language/ risk of making a mistake.

There's a weary tolerance of it all, but they are wise to the fragility of some of these kids with their flip-flopping identities and they are definitely not seen as cool or people to emulate.

Yep, same with my older teens.
They have been kind to the girls pretending to be boys, and the boys pretending to be girls. But when it veered over in bullying and railroading they just went nah - fuck off.

Yes I have felt saddened by disappointing they have both been. I really loved WH when Jane and Jenni were on but Jane was always my favourite presenter. Jane now goes on my list of women who I loved but now make me sad because of their lack of support for women (on the list is also Caitlin Moran and Victoria Coren)!!!!!

Yes I quite liked Emma Barnet but have given up on radio 4 altogether now.

yes she was great. I used to love Billy Bragg as well. He’s such a disappointment!

I saw him live for three New Year’s Eves in a row in the early 90s (my ex was a fan) - two of them also featured the gorgeous wonderful Kirsty MacColl. Such a disappointment to see how misguided he’s become. One of my favourite songs is A New England, FFS!

@MavisMcMinty yes such a beautiful song. Kirsty’s version was the best.

Jane now goes on my list of women who I loved but now make me sad because of their lack of support for women (on the list is also Caitlin Moran and Victoria Coren)!!!!!

Oh no Victoria Coren?! What a disappointment.

@LizHoney tbh I haven’t looked into this one much but I think she is pretty TWAW on twitter. She is such a smart no nonsense woman that I find it hard to believe she’s not GC.

I think the smart women will get there. They are still in the "but we shouldn't define women by their biology, people just want to pee, poor fragile souls having such drastic surgery" stage, and they are in a media bubble.

But the more TRAs get what they want, the more visible trans women who don't fit that mould become, the more opportunities that should have gone to female people are seen being taken up by male, the more erst-while allies will realise this is something they cannot support.

Because this movement contains the seeds of its own destruction. It cannot be any other way because the assumptions upon which it rests are not real. The future it is trying to bring about (one in which no one cares about sex, gender is all that matters) is not going to happen by following the TRA path, no matter how sincerely they may believe it should, because like it or not, (and FWIW I don’t) sex is significant in our society, our sex does make a difference to how our bodies function, how people treat us and how we see ourselves, and pretending it doesn't, and that men who want to be seen as women are just the same as people who live their lives in female bodies won't change that.