Page 5 | British Army invites male to talk about his 'lived experience' as a woman

MenWearOrnaments · 2023-08-10T13:50:11+00:00

The co-chair of the Army Servicewomen's Network tweeted out some photos of a Women in Leadership event yesterday. Cue many women pointing out the elephant in the room, so to speak, in the last photo of the Lived Experience Panel: [[https://twitter.com/ASN_CoChair/status/1689310145770135553 https://twitter.com/ASN_CoChair/status/1689310145770135553]] Perhaps a subtle act of protest?

Hedjwitch · 13/08/2023 19:19

This is so fucking insulting. His lived experience in the Army is not the same as that of women in the Army..and I know many of them! They struggle with wrong sized kit and body armour,they have to be physically so fit that they are better than the men in many fitness tests. One Major told me" on the runs,you have to beat the men. Meeting the womens times is not enough to be taken seriously". They deal with period cramps and periods. Lose ground on their careers if they are pregnant.
This man is a cross dresser, not a woman. He is also seriously out of shape and an appalling advertisement for the Army. Small wonder they are struggling to recruit and retain.

ArabeIIaScott · 13/08/2023 19:20

Pandaflop · 13/08/2023 18:33

I also have lived experience, 8 years worth although I signed off in 2016. Even when I was in there were lots of overweight personnel, only a small % were ever discharged because of this. There are FOIs and all sorts of reports online in regard to this. I agree with you that weight and maintaining fitness standards should be compulsory, but it often isn't. The 2 are different things (what shpuld be the case and what is the case), age in my experience is the biggest denominator rather than sex.

I am GC but I feel uncomfortable about the discussion of an individual who has served their country for 4 decades and questions being asked beyond 'what was their role in this event' which I agree is wrong as it should be women. Sure I understand the curiosity for discussions around what logistically happens to someone in the forces who transitions, and around weight and medication and fitness to serve etc, but personally find it uncomfortable in this context- separate threads on those would be interesting perhaps. Just my opinion.

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That is a good, kind, and compassionate response, and I respect it.

Unfortunately, I am a bad, bad person. 😁

SingingKlingon · 14/08/2023 06:28

@Hedjwitch too right!

Fuck be kind! He has no idea what it's like to be a woman in the army. He can fuck off back to fucksville.

Fuck Be Kind!!

He probably joined the same decade as me, no fucking way was his experience like mine.

Being called a Split Arse regularly, having an enraged purple faced cpl half an inch from my face with spittle flying everywhere calling me a "Dirty slut" because one my nails had a tiny bit of dirt under it, having my naked breasts examined at medicals by male doctors.

So no, I have to respect for all his years service now that he's decided to be the voice of womanhood in the army. At looking at the size of him he's a REMF anyway.

And anyone poster that says "I'm as GC as they come but ...." normally doesn't command my respect either.

Codlingmoths · 14/08/2023 07:36

twelly · 13/08/2023 10:26

The more articles I read the more my view become clearer - I am firmly of the view that people should not be able to change gender or sex at all. Campaigning for single spaces etc is important but in my view that is only superficial, I believe that the fundamental issue is biology. Biology in my view means you are male or female.

Gender or sex??? Gender should be irrelevant - male and female people should be able to wear whatever they want, engage in whatever activities they want, and where it’s physically competitive or there are safety or privacy considerations then those activities and spaces should be categorised by sex.
I would absolutely support a forum for queer people in the army, just not for male people telling women what it’s like to be a woman, when the very well known and not very improved barriers and challenges are so sex specific.

Pandaflop · 14/08/2023 08:10

And anyone poster that says "I'm as GC as they come but ...." normally doesn't command my respect either.

Oh no so sad how will I cope with an anonymous stranger not having respect for my views. Boo hoo.

twelly · 14/08/2023 08:43

@Codlingmoths I don't think that the distinction between gender or sex is helpful - the two words in my view are interchangeable.
Yes people can wear what they want and live their lives as they wish but they remain either male or female as they were born male or female.

ArabeIIaScott · 14/08/2023 09:07

Pandaflop · 14/08/2023 08:10

And anyone poster that says "I'm as GC as they come but ...." normally doesn't command my respect either.

Oh no so sad how will I cope with an anonymous stranger not having respect for my views. Boo hoo.

I see, so you're going to be kind, polite and respectful to the man in the photo, but treat women on here with sneers and rudeness.

Hepwo · 14/08/2023 09:30

Whatever anyone thinks of him it army policy to treat men as women once transitioned and we all know that means as little as clothes.

So this inclusion expert is trotting around schools informing teenage boys that they can join up and live in women's quarters. And informing teenage girls that they must shut the fuck up. Along with all serving women.

These old sexist dinosaurs have been given a new lease of life haven't they?

Pandaflop · 14/08/2023 12:10

ArabeIIaScott · 14/08/2023 09:07

I see, so you're going to be kind, polite and respectful to the man in the photo, but treat women on here with sneers and rudeness.

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No I just don't really see why someone saying someone who says x doesn't command respect from me thinks random people on the Internet would be bothered about whether another stranger respects them. If you've read my posts I say it's wrong that they're on this panel at this event, and that there are some interesting and worthwhile discussion points, just that I personally feel uncomfortable with these being done against a certain individual when most of the questions are based on ignorance. What in that is unreasonable to you?

DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn · 14/08/2023 12:19

Penny joined the Army in 1982.
Decided to transition to a transgender woman in 2004. Has served for 41 years.
now I'm not the worlds best mathematician but even I can work out that 22 years is longer than 19 years.
Penny has spent longer in the Army as a man than as a transgender woman. afforded opportunities in those 22 years that would never have been open to a woman. Or have those 22 years just been conveniently erased ?

Pandaflop · 14/08/2023 12:20

DaphneDeloresMoreheadRidesOn · 14/08/2023 12:19

Penny joined the Army in 1982.
Decided to transition to a transgender woman in 2004. Has served for 41 years.
now I'm not the worlds best mathematician but even I can work out that 22 years is longer than 19 years.
Penny has spent longer in the Army as a man than as a transgender woman. afforded opportunities in those 22 years that would never have been open to a woman. Or have those 22 years just been conveniently erased ?

Who is erasing them?

HarridanHarvestingHeldaBeans · 14/08/2023 13:35

Unless he joined at less than 14, that puts him well over the usual retirement age of 55. I know that exceptions can be granted, but I believe that is fairly rare. Unless somehow his magical womanly status turns back calendars?

PatatiPatatras · 14/08/2023 13:39

Pandaflop · 14/08/2023 12:10

No I just don't really see why someone saying someone who says x doesn't command respect from me thinks random people on the Internet would be bothered about whether another stranger respects them. If you've read my posts I say it's wrong that they're on this panel at this event, and that there are some interesting and worthwhile discussion points, just that I personally feel uncomfortable with these being done against a certain individual when most of the questions are based on ignorance. What in that is unreasonable to you?

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I couldn't make this make sense.
Which questions are based on ignorance? Was there a video of panel questions as well?
Or are you saying the posters on here are ignorant? If so, ignorant of what?
I got lost and can't figure out what is making you uncomfortable.

JanesLittleGirl · 14/08/2023 13:43

HarridanHarvestingHeldaBeans · 14/08/2023 13:35

Unless he joined at less than 14, that puts him well over the usual retirement age of 55. I know that exceptions can be granted, but I believe that is fairly rare. Unless somehow his magical womanly status turns back calendars?

I just checked. Retirement is 60.

HarridanHarvestingHeldaBeans · 14/08/2023 18:31

Ah, it used to be 55, but it's not something I've had to think about since my dad retired, so I must have missed the change