British Army invites male to talk about his 'lived experience' as a woman

[MenWearOrnaments]

The co-chair of the Army Servicewomen's Network tweeted out some photos of a Women in Leadership event yesterday.

Cue many women pointing out the elephant in the room, so to speak, in the last photo of the Lived Experience Panel:

https://twitter.com/ASN_CoChair/status/1689310145770135553

Perhaps a subtle act of protest?

It's so old fashioned though, men wearing women's clothes like this is a throwback to the dress codes of the 1950s.

He can cross dress in private.

We don't need to pretend men are women to be inclusive whatever that stupid word is meant to mean. I doubt Lord Dannat could explain what he actually means in plain English without the gaslighting script he's memorised.

Lord Dannatt, the former head of the Army, said that…

Doesn’t matter what he thinks. What matters is: what does the current head of whichever part of the military firmament organised this event think about it?

I respect Deborah Penny for being honest that living in man gender is impossible for her and that Deborah is a transwoman. She can absolutely support other transwomen on lived experience panels and I think an army that accepts and validates transwomen has to be a positive step. Transwomen are transwomen. But they've gone and spoilt it all by pretending that Deborah has anything to say about being a woman in the army, and making the fellow panelist's go along with it like puppets. She has no life experience of being a woman. She isn't read as a woman.

I absolutely hate the taunting of transwomen about their appearance. It's really low.

FFS

The photo's great though, as pp have pointed out - no words required.

Hold up. You are either talking about the smirk, the size difference or the snort. None of these was a taunt.

I think an army that accepts and validates transwomen has to be a positive step.

What are the positives of the army pretending men are actually women?

I agree with this, especially as they originally came out as trans a decade ago when it very much wasn't generally accepted in the military. I'm sure she does have value to add in supporting others, I agree that this shouldn't be on a women's experiences in the military panel. The main issues facing military women are having children (should they choose), sexual harassment and assaults none of which would affect a transwoman.

I'm sure she does have value to add in supporting others,

What, encouragement to more men to behave like this?

There actually really good points.

I absolutely don't believe transwomen are women and I have a big issue with infringement of women's spaces, but for someone that has transitioned and has been trans since 2004 when it was very much not accepted in the military then yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people they can support beyond those who are trans. This person has served their country for 4 decades, their male and female colleagues speak highly of them and they have done a lot with their inclusion work beyond for those who are trans- I can't find it in myself to be disparaging towards them aside from attending this particular event. It seems they have proudly stated they're trans rather than pretending they're a natal woman which is quite refreshing also.

I think you're right.

Women in the military have other challenges that she won't have lived experience of.

How being downgraded during pregnancy or on the return to work can restrict access to promotion courses.

Or how a breastfeeding mum in the military may also have to consider attendance to promotion courses, exercises or being deployed with little notice.

Both situations are improving but they are still occurring and cause added stress to women personnel.

I think her opinion can be of use, but maybe more for the trans community or the male personnel.

So their challenge has been being trans in the army. Not being a woman. Because as a woman I can’t begin to imagine how a male feels.

I think her opinion can be of use, but maybe more for the trans community or the male personnel.

100%.

Looking forwards to reading about Ukrainian frontline soldiers and generals who've transed.

You're in luck then as there are articles and accounts online for you to read ;)

The more articles I read the more my view become clearer - I am firmly of the view that people should not be able to change gender or sex at all. Campaigning for single spaces etc is important but in my view that is only superficial, I believe that the fundamental issue is biology. Biology in my view means you are male or female.

As a veteran I'm not convinced a trans person should serve. I would prefer them to have a psychiatric assessment, could I trust their judgement in a dangerous situation?

One of my officers transitioned after he left. He was not at mentally healthy individual I would have been very uncomfortable following his orders if he was still in.

I am absolutely not saying trans people shouldn't be in the military I AM saying there needs to be assessments on each individual case!

It was only recently we had Klinger on Mash dressing as a woman to try to get medically discharged from Vietnam.

(OMG mash was 50 years ago!! WTF, so not relevant at all!!)

There seem to be quite a lot of men who transition post army. It seemed from some accounts to possibly be at least in part a response to trauma.

"I think an army that accepts and validates transwomen has to be a positive step"

How and why does the army need to "validate" (whatever that actually means) the identity claims of its soldiers?

Men can’t talk about how it feels to be a woman in any set of circumstances or any professional context, because they’re not women.

Doesn’t the Army have enough female staff to talk about their own experiences as women?

As for the “taunting” comment: not “taunting” at all, but “snorting” (yet again) at the photo that proves that men who think they’re women “pass” as such. They don’t, however hard they shoehorn bulky shoulders into uniform intended for a female body.

Yes, and it also appears to be a reaction to feeling they can't live up to the hyper-masculinity and macho military culture. So obviously that means they must be wrong and not really a man rather than the culture being wrong.

Presumably no one asked her what it was like being in the army as a woman?

Of course not. And she looks embarrassed.

I think a talk on the lived experience as a Trans man or woman could be interesting and play a role in diversity training.

Why can’t Transwomen value their own identity and experience? As Trans. I am a woman and wouldn’t dream of talking to a room full of Transwomen about what it was like for ‘us’ grieving up and developing our careers in the context of being a role model for Trans people.

I think it's important not to personally attack the individual concerned, if someone wants to talk about their experience in the army that is of course fine but that is a specific individual's experience.