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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amanda Abbington and Strictly.

450 replies

PriamFarrl · 06/08/2023 23:41

I never watch Strictly, but it seems that her being on it is causing some conflict.

I did a quick look but couldn’t see a thread.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/strictly-come-dancing-fans-divided-27466760?fbclid=IwAR1iNqoQHvU6tlsap3W1iWz7oG81Sp0Qimp81rzzd5XAU9fB4NLm_LgE47w_aem_AWkW94vOg0i7vw4ncasDUMNwbDACoxFIhz_Dsisy4LT9Nv0k-aEB-k7pqbT5hptMzeU#ll00z8fhy5yfgk5qz3

Strictly Come Dancing fans divided as some say they will be avoiding 2023 series

"I’m alright thanks, pal"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/strictly-come-dancing-fans-divided-27466760?fbclid=IwAR1iNqoQHvU6tlsap3W1iWz7oG81Sp0Qimp81rzzd5XAU9fB4NLm_LgE47w_aem_AWkW94vOg0i7vw4ncasDUMNwbDACoxFIhz_Dsisy4LT9Nv0k-aEB-k7pqbT5hptMzeU#ll00z8fhy5yfgk5qz3

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28
HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:31

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:20

I didn't know all of that, but I suspected as much! Someone who swears liberally in public is hardly going to rein it in while in private. Of course Gio should have known better but I think the one was probably as bad as the other. He most likely said what he said in the knowledge at the time that AA wouldn't be offended, but then she threw her toys out of the pram, and 'became' offended by everything.

With this skill in acrobatics, I think you'd be great as a contestant in Strictly.

Booklover28 · 02/10/2024 19:32

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:12

Maybe it is just you. And nobody is "lambasting" anyone. I am just trying to be fair and not automatically jump to the defence of the 'little woman'. I am sick of women being protrayed as these weak little humans with no agency!

Most men don't tend to use that kind of language to a woman they know will object to it. Of course men shouldn't make sexual comments to women at work, but if she was coming out with sexual banter to him, well then you could see why he might do the same? It may well be the case that both of them spoke inappropriately!

A firm, "I don't like that sort of language" is usually sufficient to stop the behaviour, and then don't use it yourself either!

Yes! This! Exactly the point which I was trying to make in my posts… some of the posters are projecting their feelings when discussing what is appropriate and not. Not all women are the same.

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:35

I am sick of women being protrayed as these weak little humans with no agency!

Who said women who are harassed in the workplace have no agency? Why is this a focus on the women's behaviour again?

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:36

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 18:19

Ok, so you’re saying that all means she’s fair game for any man in the workplace? Just checking. Glad that you’re shocked by swearing but ok with ‘I want to fuck you,’ though.

That's not what the poster was saying at all and you know it!

Setting it in context, AA in her own words, swore and engaged in inappropriate banter, then it follows that this is probably the person she is (not criticising, merely pointing out). As the saying goes, "don't give it out if you can't take it".

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:40

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:36

That's not what the poster was saying at all and you know it!

Setting it in context, AA in her own words, swore and engaged in inappropriate banter, then it follows that this is probably the person she is (not criticising, merely pointing out). As the saying goes, "don't give it out if you can't take it".

I absolutely stand behind what I said. And what you're saying is somewhat... abhorrent.. to me.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:41

JenniferBooth · 02/10/2024 19:05

Are you saying women ought to watch what they say OUTSIDE work just in case they end up in a situation like this Because men wouldnt be expected to do the same

Of course they would. It wasn't just "out of work" - it was public!

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:42

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:09

Yes. We’re a step away from ‘but she was wearing a skimpy ballgown!’

Bollocks. Absolutely not the case.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:46

MarkWithaC · 02/10/2024 19:22

What, out of interest, do people think made her ‘become offended’?

Ask the BBC!

Don't you think it somewhat undermines her credibility that 10 out of her 16 allegations were not upheld?

MarkWithaC · 02/10/2024 19:48

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:46

Ask the BBC!

Don't you think it somewhat undermines her credibility that 10 out of her 16 allegations were not upheld?

Or, to put it another way, most of them were.

On another note, no one has answered my question about the things it’s been suggested she said to him.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:48

JenniferBooth · 02/10/2024 19:22

Yep There is no such thing as street harassment Men deffo dont do it if its unwanted 🙄

This is not "street harassment" or anything like it!

MarkWithaC · 02/10/2024 19:49

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:48

This is not "street harassment" or anything like it!

Swerving the point…

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:50

MarkWithaC · 02/10/2024 19:28

And yet it’s not mentioned in the reports about the things said in the training room. They are all things Giovanni said.

I haven't seen that level of detail, and I don't suppose you have either.

Gio will have been questioned on each of the allegations. If there were no witness, then the panel will have made a decision on a balance of probablility. I imagine that the evidence he gave is not going to be made public.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:51

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:29

I really would love to live in the world you're in.

You would be a lot more enlightened if you did.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:53

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:31

With this skill in acrobatics, I think you'd be great as a contestant in Strictly.

Did it take you long to think of that insult? Congratulations. Though I think a circus might be more appropriate for you.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:55

MarkWithaC · 02/10/2024 19:49

Swerving the point…

Crap, it's not the same situation at all - you are the one who's swerving.

The majority of 'decent men' do not engage in sexual banter unless they believe it will be reciprocated/well received. Though most 'decent men' wouldn't engage in it at all.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:56

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:40

I absolutely stand behind what I said. And what you're saying is somewhat... abhorrent.. to me.

You need to get into the real world. I absolutely stand by all I said too.

I'm fed up with blaming men because they're men! It's tedious!

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:56

Engaging in this thread has made me feel like a need a shower. Honestly, I wish Amanda good luck in her future endeavours.

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:57

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:56

You need to get into the real world. I absolutely stand by all I said too.

I'm fed up with blaming men because they're men! It's tedious!

Not because they're men. Because they are men who have allegedly bullied and sexually harassed women.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:58

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 19:56

Engaging in this thread has made me feel like a need a shower. Honestly, I wish Amanda good luck in her future endeavours.

Yeah you need one.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 02/10/2024 19:58

Someone who swears liberally in public is hardly going to rein it in while in private.

I swear liberally on social media. The worst thing I've ever said at work is 'oh bother'. And I doubt I've even gone that far more than a handful of times. I've certainly managed to retrain myself from making sexual comments to any colleagues - including those who harassed me.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 19:59

MarkWithaC · 02/10/2024 19:48

Or, to put it another way, most of them were.

On another note, no one has answered my question about the things it’s been suggested she said to him.

You need to go back to Maths class. 6 out of 16 is not the majority!! 😂

And nobody can answer your questions because we don't fucking know!

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 20:00

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 02/10/2024 19:58

Someone who swears liberally in public is hardly going to rein it in while in private.

I swear liberally on social media. The worst thing I've ever said at work is 'oh bother'. And I doubt I've even gone that far more than a handful of times. I've certainly managed to retrain myself from making sexual comments to any colleagues - including those who harassed me.

So, if a colleague made a sexually inappropriate remark to you, what would you do?

Well done on the admirable self control though.

IwantToRetire · 02/10/2024 20:00

So on a forum that is meant to be feminist, ie having a least a basic understanding of the power structure of the patriarchy, a woman is being blamed for having made formal complaints about a male professional she was paired with was acting inappropriately.

Fairy tale notions that if you indicate to a man he has gone to far he will just stop is, would be if it wasn't so serious, hilariously.

Not forgetting that once AA complaints went public other women came forward and said they had experienced the same. ie the BBC already knew he was a problematic participant and failed to act.

Do some of you just not grasp the power structures?

Week by week the BBC was in fact monitoring and agreeing he had gone too far, but that didn't (this is the BBC that covered up for Huw Edwards) mean they told him to start behaving inappropriately.

What is so grotesque (and all this was said earlier in the thread) is that this is a family show, meant to be early evening entertainment, and yet the BBC let egotistical males behave like throwbacks to some medieval past.

The BBC are on one level the primary culprit because they indulged a work climate that was misogynistic.

And even if AA used banter, again in the hierarchy of a male dominated work place, it does not compare to the banter of a man who is cossetted by an exploitative employer.

I dont care if she did "banter" whether to try and fit in, because she does with friends, or whatever. In an unequal work place she is not the problem.

Women being forced to behave in a manner that men think is "natural" are women working in a position of less power in a male dominated workforce.

This is the same as those who say women are asking for it because they dress up for a night out.

Only in men's head would this be "true" and it is beyond belief that apparently a bit of horse play going a bit far in a work place isn't really a problem.

Far from being a discussion coming from a feminist perspective this thread seems to have drifted into some sort of karmic justice theory, that its okay that a woman who may have breached acceptable behaviour should be punished.

This is a workplace issue.

The BBC failed to ensure a safe enviroment for those taking part in a family show.

And as they have done in other shows allowed men in one of their shows to think they were beyond criticism.

On the basis of the BBC failure I think the show should be cancelled.

Lookingatthesunset · 02/10/2024 20:02

Booklover28 · 02/10/2024 19:32

Yes! This! Exactly the point which I was trying to make in my posts… some of the posters are projecting their feelings when discussing what is appropriate and not. Not all women are the same.

There's actually no point in talking to some of these people. They just are incapable of seeing that there are two sides to every story, and they stoop as low as they can to make those of us who can see that, feel bad. I'm not remotely bothered by the lack of comprehension.

HazardLights · 02/10/2024 20:03

IwantToRetire · 02/10/2024 20:00

So on a forum that is meant to be feminist, ie having a least a basic understanding of the power structure of the patriarchy, a woman is being blamed for having made formal complaints about a male professional she was paired with was acting inappropriately.

Fairy tale notions that if you indicate to a man he has gone to far he will just stop is, would be if it wasn't so serious, hilariously.

Not forgetting that once AA complaints went public other women came forward and said they had experienced the same. ie the BBC already knew he was a problematic participant and failed to act.

Do some of you just not grasp the power structures?

Week by week the BBC was in fact monitoring and agreeing he had gone too far, but that didn't (this is the BBC that covered up for Huw Edwards) mean they told him to start behaving inappropriately.

What is so grotesque (and all this was said earlier in the thread) is that this is a family show, meant to be early evening entertainment, and yet the BBC let egotistical males behave like throwbacks to some medieval past.

The BBC are on one level the primary culprit because they indulged a work climate that was misogynistic.

And even if AA used banter, again in the hierarchy of a male dominated work place, it does not compare to the banter of a man who is cossetted by an exploitative employer.

I dont care if she did "banter" whether to try and fit in, because she does with friends, or whatever. In an unequal work place she is not the problem.

Women being forced to behave in a manner that men think is "natural" are women working in a position of less power in a male dominated workforce.

This is the same as those who say women are asking for it because they dress up for a night out.

Only in men's head would this be "true" and it is beyond belief that apparently a bit of horse play going a bit far in a work place isn't really a problem.

Far from being a discussion coming from a feminist perspective this thread seems to have drifted into some sort of karmic justice theory, that its okay that a woman who may have breached acceptable behaviour should be punished.

This is a workplace issue.

The BBC failed to ensure a safe enviroment for those taking part in a family show.

And as they have done in other shows allowed men in one of their shows to think they were beyond criticism.

On the basis of the BBC failure I think the show should be cancelled.

Yes, all of this.

Do some of you just not grasp the power structures?

They either benefit from them or benefit from not threatening them.

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