This is just vile NHS again

[IcakethereforeIam]

I'm hoping it'll be swiftly withdrawn but someone should be fired for this. Notice it's about making women comply.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12370811/NHS-managers-told-not-offer-sympathy-female-colleagues-worried-sharing-toilets-biological-men-woke-handbook.html

Because some women don’t want to be in a room with men. Some women can’t show parts of their body to men, so how do they wash their hands ?

You’re in a private cubicle, why does it matter.

Because I've read the tweets of the guys who find listening to me wee a turn-on, and wank in the next cubicle and leave evidence for some poor woman to find (or not notice) and get turned on by that too

Because it's not a private cubicle, it's open top and bottom, and I've seen cameras pushed under and had men peek over the top (and toddlers try to escape and look under the next cubicle in turn)

Because generally stand to wee, and many aren't careful about it and make the toilets stink with splashback

Because men are used to urinals, and often forget to close the door

And that's just the relatively trivial ones. Fundamentally, I just want single sex toilets thanks.

There is a massive difference between men’s and women’s toilets. The wee all over the floor and loo ( why can’t they point it down the bowl ?) and the smell is very different.

Thank you for expressing my thoughts so well. I am furious. How dare they use the scarce funds that WE pay for healthcare on this outrageous, discriminatory bullshit. Someone should be sacked for this.

Gender critical means critical of the concept of gender - that there are specific roles, behaviours and clothing etc which are appropriate for each of the sexes.

A woman might hold quite conservative views which promote gender (which means she is not gender critical), but still believe that sex is immutable. Believing that sex is immutable is a belief held by the majority of people, not just those who reject gender stereotypes.

It’s women who are overwhelmingly affected. I don’t hear stories of trans men or women who are non-binary marching into changing rooms full of Muslim men and demanding they get changed in front of them or tolerate whilst the female gets unchanged. I do hear tales of men demanding women of colour, who only serve women, wax their genitals.

And where female are entering male spaces, it’s an arrogant intrusion, there is no sexual element, it is not an intimidation or threat in the way women experience makes in their spaces.

Let’s not pretend that this movement is not overwhelmingly negatively affecting women. One of the reasons we need to analyze by sex is to see where women are disproportionately affected by policy and legal changes.

The dictionary definition of gender critical belief is opposition to the belief that gender identity is more important or significant than biological sex.

I don’t understand how you can refuse to share a space with a biological man (however they present) unless you agree with that. if you think the opposite is true then what would be the problem?

I completely agree with you, but showing how it affects everyone that isn't trans helps us as well.
I'm sure you've seen the US rowing rules where men are 'women' if they are rowing against women, but if it is a mixed sex race then they count as men because it wouldn't be fair to discriminate against the men in the mixed sex team.
It has, for too long, been painted as everyone against the mad GC women, the reality is that it affects everyone that isn't beholden to the cult.

I've copied and pasted this into a draft email for future use.

The dictionary definition of gender critical belief is opposition to the belief that gender identity is more important or significant than biological sex.

If that's your definition of gender critical, then I agree with you.

But many people who don't believe in gender identity endorse gender stereotyping. I wouldn't describe these people as gender critical.

Perhaps gender critical isn't a very good term and we need a better one.

You’re in a private cubicle, why does it matter

Try thinking about why a woman or young girl might come out of a private cubicle into a small space (such as a woman's toilet) and not want to find a man in there. Try really hard.

And here is an example of another group of women who are excluded from the groups considered under equality and diversity - survivors of male sexual violence. I have a friend who due to this absolutely cannot use mixed sex toilets.

There are many women who for many reasons cannot use mixed sex toilets and many more women, who even if they have not been assaulted, have had enough experiences of aggressive, intimidating and sexually harassing men not to want men in spaces where they feel vulnerable.

@OldCrone , it’s not my definition it’s taken from the Oxford English Dictionary. I completely agree we need a clearer one as I think a great many people hold GC views without actually realising it.

It doesn’t matter how many times you tell some people why it DOES matter, when in their heads they instantly replace those reasons with, “Well, it doesn’t matter to ME.”

Equality and inclusivity for everyone but women.

The example you have given of US rowing is an example of how this ideology is only affecting women, because the men are making sure it doesn’t affect them.

Its not that the men can’t see that women are being disadvantaged by letting males in women’s sports, they see that very well, it’s just that they just don’t care.

You are talking like it’s just a coincidence this movement disproportionately affects women. It’s not. The men understand how it affects us. They just don’t care. As the rowing case shows, they would care very much if it affected them negatively. This movement would have never taken hold if it affected men the way it’s affecting women.

Quite. They even say it aloud. I had a friend fully signed up to this shit who would just say ‘ ‘well I don’t care about being naked in front of a man’. Implication being no other woman should either.

Actually she was lying. I know damn well before all of this she would have been spitting furious if a man entered a changing room whilst she was naked. She was just now pretending that she wouldn’t. Like this movements tells ‘girls’ they need to, to be good.

The line about 'promoting, etc. equality and diversity', iirc that's pretty much word for word what Costa said in their statement defending their mutilation graffiti. I don't think that is a coincidence. It's coming out from somewhere. Are they both on the Stonewall twit list?

Loads of quotes saying why this is bad. Will they scrap the guide and redo?

We are losing here. The law needs to help us out. These Trusts and institutions are riding over women’s rights.

I’d say it’s very likely to be coming from there

Bloody hell what can we do?

This.
And I'd add that GC women recognise that it is not up to them to turn single sex spaces into mixed sex just because they do not feel unsafe/uncomfortable.

I've name changed because this is revealing but I'm scared in mixed toilets, I'm bloody 40 and I get quite nervous, I suffered childhood assault and as a teen was wanked at in an enclosed space and flashed at as well. And yes I know every man is not like that but how can you tell.

Ask Stonewall and the TRAs. We were all perfectly happy to have single-sex spaces. They're the ones who think it matters so much the rights, safety, privacy and dignity of half the population should be removed.

Get the sharpies out

OldCrone

On another forum, Kucinghitam often used the term "sex realist," which I think is quite apt.