Streeting apologies to Rosie Duffield

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

Well well

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views

Could they maybe possibly at last be listening?

I don't know that Starmer believes that at all! But he's anxious to stay on good terms with those who want to pretend that it's true, so he pretends too. He'll keep pretending as long as the pro-trans side seems more capable of causing trouble than the gender critical side.

Speaking of politicians. Neale Hanvey (Alba):

'When I spoke to Somerville in 2019 she told me she knew predators were a risk, but that as GRR was Nicola’s priority so I shouldn’t say anything. I have never, for a single second, regretted ignoring this dangerous advice'

https://twitter.com/JNHanvey/status/1684979522326671365

https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1685357127064559616

'I’m not convinced that self ID can work – you know - without any kind of processes in, and safeguards in law’

SING IT STREETING

Yeah, duh.

ArabeIIaScott · Today 20:04
https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1685357127064559616

Thank you. I am far more convinced by him having listened to what he said in its entirety in this interview.

I didn’t like the way he referred to transpeople’s hurt, but women’s “bad temper” even if he went on to explain how it was eventually proved understandable by Isla Bryson.

He could have referred to women’s frustration or even outrage, but “bad tempered” goes with bitch, harridan or fish-wife.

My heart, as always, bleeds purple piss for LOJ's happiness.

Honey, I know, I know, I know times are changing
It's time we all reach out for something new
That means you, too
You say you want a leader
But you can't seem to make up your mind

I'll have the buttons for my sewing box if you don't need them.

Hard agree with your excellent list. (my phone wants to write "hard agree with your excellency" 😃 👑)

We all want to forget Maggie Chapman 🤢

I don't know if this has been posted on this thread yet but JKR called it

You're very welcome. Sorry, Owen.

Transcription of Wes Streeting interview up to 3.08 minutes. The second half is where he talks about Rosie Duffield, I'll try and do that tomorrow.

'In contrast to the Prime Minister who is trying to divide the country, we’re trying to bring people together and we’re trying to build bridges, and I think that – with self ID for example, and looking at what happened in Scoltand I think we came to the conclusion self ID can work, and does work in our everyday interactions, and there are people I meet all the time who tell me their name and tell me their pronouns, and I accept them for who they are, and treat them with respect.

But I’m not convinced that self ID can work – you know - without any kind of processes, and, and safeguards in law, and I think that’s been at the heart of what lots of women in particular but other people have been concerned about.
You know you don’t want the situation where someone can abuse well-meaning laws designed for trans people, in order to at the least worst end take the mick, or at the extreme end present a threat to women in particular, but potentially others too.

And this is a difficult area partly because, um, you know the process that people currently have to go through to get a GRC can be time consuming, costly dehumanising, degrading.

And also you’ve got to tread carefully when describing the problem because there’s - I think sometimes when we talk about safeguards in law to protect people, you know trans people say: ‘hang on a minute, you’re surely not saying we’re all predators?’ – of course not – and the thing that I’ve been mindful of in the days since the LP policy forum is that our discussion in the Labour Party are taking place against the wider backdrop that’s making the whole LGBT community feel anxious, at best, and in the case of trans people in particular, unsafe and afraid.

So what we’re trying to do in the LP is recognise legitimate concerns that people have, find a way forward that maybe not everyone loves but everyone can live with, and restore some respect and compassion to what has been at times a very ugly debate.

And certainly you know, I talked about the hurt trans people feel, I think there are lots of women who have been raising concerns in good faith and increasingly bec... of having not been listened to, in bad temper, because they feel like banging their heads against a brick wall.

And then the Isla Bryson case comes up in Scotland and lots of people mself included say ‘Oh goodness, this is a bit of a problem, isn’t it?’

And you know these women are saying say ‘Yeah, we’ve been telling you and you haven’t been listening’.

So I think we’re we’re trying to get this right, our approach, however imperfect and uncomfortable and bumpy it’s been at times is a better approach than simly trying to use a sensitive issue like this to divide people and divide our country which is what I think the Conservative Party are doing.'

I should add, that's taken from the shortened version on Times' Twitter. The programme itself is 3 hours and I lost the will to live trying to find the right bit.

Streeting has posted the clip on his Twitter .

Everyone's raging.

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1685359305371885569

its a start. I think there’s an acknowledgment that the labour partner, and him personally, have not been listening and have patronised and dismissed women’s concerns. I object strongly to the term ‘bad tempered’ which sounds misogynistic frankly. Women have been feeling enraged, frustrated, silenced, terrified, etc etc but not in my opinion , grumpy.
I think the Labour Party is hoping that if they say they’ll protect ‘single sex’ spaces we’ll be so relieved we’ll forget to check what that means in their terminology. So without self ID to you are not the opposite sex just because you say you are… but with a GRC are you? If one doctor says you are trans does that grant access to a single sex space?

Thank you for the transcription. Streeting said:

But I’m not convinced that self ID can work – you know - without any kind of processes, and, and safeguards in law, and I think that’s been at the heart of what lots of women in particular but other people have been concerned about.
You know you don’t want the situation where someone can abuse well-meaning laws designed for trans people, in order to at the least worst end take the mick, or at the extreme end present a threat to women in particular, but potentially others too.

As long as the GRA persists there will be the opportunity to keep the distinction Streeting seems to be making between ‘true’ trans people vs some people ‘taking the Mick’ as he says and threats to women (and who else did he mean? Kids? Katie Dolatowski type offenders?)
Its illogical but they say the want safes but Labour propose to water down the GRA process but that isn’t a safeguard really as it is, and also gives men access to ‘women in particular, but potentially others too’.

As to the apology in the OP… If that’s an apology from Streeting to Duffield it’s a piss poor one. Like that weaselly saying: ‘I’m sorry if I have upset you’, when you know perfectly well that you’ve upset someone.

I’m glad they’re recognising publicly that Rosie Duffield has been treated appallingly but the working culture that it happened in was in a professional setting and under Starmer’s leadership and former ‘TWAW’ sexist, homophobic, misogynistic policy direction.

And so Starmer should also apologise. He won’t though because so long as GRA persists he has to accept and promote the premise that you can change sex legally. Rosie and GC women are saying that the emperor has no clothes on so he needs to avoid speaking them lest he have to be put on record saying something that acknowledges reality.

Well done Wes. It is a difficult thing to admit that you were wrong and especially for someone who was previously part of Stonewall. It is not easy for anyone to admit mistakes or distance from their ‘tribe’.

Don’t forget that the Tories were also pro-self id and have let all this gender ideology take root in schools, the NHS and the civil service.

Well done to all the women who have got both many parties to change direction and see sense. If the Tories can be forgiven when they have actually implemented all this, then why is Labour being held to a higher standard?

@Flammkuchen because both the GRA and the Equality Act are Labour pieces of legislation. The impulse to protect ‘vulnerable minorities’ at the expense of well established social conventions is a left-progressive one.

To be sure, some Tories are full on TRAs but when you look at the old GRA debate in the Hansard (freely available online), Tories were the ones who were cautious and asked a lot of difficult questions. Sometimes being cautious about social change and wary of social engineering is the right approach and caution has been largely absent in the Labour Party.

Labour is being held to a higher standard because it is the party that has claimed most credit for advancing equality. But when you unthinkingly propose reforms that make things worse for women, in particular those with disabilities, from ethnic minorities and from low-income groups, and undermine the safeguarding of children, then you have failed.

The GRA is bad law. It confuses sex and gender identity, and the stipulations around privacy are also problematic. Labour want to make it even more permissive. A letter from a GP, today, is no safeguard at all. Judges, police officers, politicians and others in positions of authority remain extremely reluctant to challenge trans-identified people’s identity. But unfortunately, that is often necessary, in day-to-day situations. Wes Streeting is simply wrong here. I can use somebody’s chosen name and avoid referring to their sex but what am I supposed to do if I encounter a male person in a single-sex space? Just accept this? WS thinks yes.

There are a lot of men on twitter furious about this. They appear not to want wes to listen to women or consider the rights of women

“It's not JUST how badly they've treated women on this specific issue; it's that it has revealed the contempt and disdain in which they hold us.”

Thats been the issue for me Arabella. It’s the drawing back of the curtain, I can’t unsee it.

And certainly you know, I talked about the hurt trans people feel, I think there are lots of women who have been raising concerns in good faith and increasingly bec... of having not been listened to, in bad temper, because they feel like banging their heads against a brick wall.

And even when they see themselves as building bridges, they still can’t help putting the boot in to women.

”in bad temper”, eh? bit like those “shrill arguments”, is it?

No mention of the masked men and the physical assaults on women, I note.

This is a good post and explains why Labour say they are ‘defending’ the Equality Act from the change proposed

Changing the definition sounds like a good way to go to me. Having listened to the WM debate. Only a couple of Labour MPs for this, majority Cons speaking plainly.

The GRA was a big mistake and has led to where we are.

It's the stupidity that astounds me. It took Isla Bryson to wake him up to the risks inherent in this insanity, when we'd all been shouting about for bloody years and been told what horrible old transphobic witches we were by his sodding party.

Bad tempered, Wes? Nope. Justifiably fucking furious.

That Streeting blurb probably sounds good in his head as he’s saying it but it doesn’t make the issue go away. Thanks for posting it btw

He’ll make it easier to do for men but protect women how? Men either have access to single sex spaces or not. If there are more men with a GRC how do you stop them accessing single sex spaces. Plus where do they actually go?

I really hope someone tackles this not just says there there women you’re in a bad temper let’s just be nice to everyone.