Page 8 | How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

TheTERFnextDoor · 2023-07-23T21:04:33+00:00

I'm really worried about the direction politics is taking, not only in the UK but globally. The right wing is on the rise almost everywhere for various reasons. Sadly, the gender debate will undoubtedly be a gift to the right wing over the next few years. It's the Tories ace card at the next election; the left as they are at the moment can't win this debate. What can we practically do to prevent this? I have tried speaking to my local Mp (Labour), and he basically told me to "be kind".

mirax · 24/07/2023 14:07

IwantToRetire · 23/07/2023 23:54

I wasn't going to join in as really we have a thread like this every other day, but what if remarkable is those who presumably think their virtue is in being left come what may, always adopt this patronising tone and though they are talking to idiots.

And what is strange is that if you ever watch those news paper review tv shows, they nearly always have a patronising "well spoken" female who things drawling out ever so superior comments about how every one else is a nut job is really deeply political and intelligent.

In fact, it begins to feel that the left has no policies.

That it is just enough to say the Tories are the nasty party, and you are nasty if you vote for them.

These threads far from making FWR look unthinkingly right wing, it makes the left look like badly programmed automatons. Do you hand in your home work to the head left honcho and go look what a good girl I've been.

As yet, not to say it isn't signifigant but excluding the issue of women's sex based rights, can anyone list a policy that Starmer's Labour Party has that is different from the Tories.

All they seem to be selling is we haven't been in power for umpteen years, and so we must be better than the Tories.

Look forward to some well researched informative posts that show how Labour would be a good thing for the UK.

Absolutely and I have always been left of centre but despise the current incarnation of western progressives. The smug and supercilious tone towards the great unwashed and as well as the reflex towards to authoritarianism in the form of cancellation and censorship, non-platforming and general censoriousness rubs my heretical soul up the wrong way.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:07

Helen Joyce is and always has been a conservative.

Helen Joyce says she is centre right. She worked for the Economist until recently.

There are many different variants of feminism. Feminism is not automatically left wing and the left are not automatically feminist. After 60-odd years of modern feminism I am amazed that there are still people confused about this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2023 14:07

But we won't get far if we keep on calling each other TERFs and handmaidens.

Only one marks you out to get punched in the face though, doesn't it?

RebelliousCow · 24/07/2023 14:07

Ramblingnamechanger · 24/07/2023 13:39

RebelliousCow Do you think that this might be a chance for the feminists to influence the PSOE / Sumar to backtrack also. Just going to have a look at the numbers of votos nulos ….

They've already passed Self Id, haven't they?

I cannot see them agreeing to repeal that.

mirax · 24/07/2023 14:13

MissAnneLister · 24/07/2023 13:53

The Tory party don't care about women. At all. They are actively fascist, want to remove women's reproductive rights, want to remove all sorts of basic human rights, want to remove freedom of speech (it's the Tory party that will result in you being arrested for attending a GC protest, and the Tory party responsible for police knocking on the doors of women who have tweeted GC stuff).

That's without the astounding level of criminal corruption and lies.

And yes they are actively trying to exploit GC believes to promote fascism and the rise of the far right.

Voting for a woman-hating fascist party is a vote against women.

There's a lot of posters who would happily vote for Gilead on the basis "at least they know what a woman is!"

The only reason the Tories define womanhood by our reproductive organs is to be able to label and control us. They hate women.

And here it is : generally unhinged and hysterical name calling from the Right side of history lefty types. You have no idea of fascism if Tories are your example of fascists. Why should anyone listen to this drivel?

PronounssheRa · 24/07/2023 14:20

Every time someone makes ridiculous allegations of fascism 2 things come to mind. First how offensive its is to those who actually lived under fascism and also Ric.

How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

EdithStourton · 24/07/2023 14:22

They are actively fascist
LOL. I have lived in a virtual dictatorship where political opponents ended up in burned-out cars in the bottom of ravines, so I know this sort of weapons-grade bullshit when I see it.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 24/07/2023 14:23

Labour are backing trans rights because it looks progressive and it’s cheap. They don’t really have to make any financial commitment that might actually help younger people, for example building enough affordable housing to give them a stake in the future, they’d much rather join a March, wave flag and stand on the podium with a convicted murderer, it’s cheap and it brings in the young voters. Well good luck with that because many of the young gen Z emerging voters are sick to death of the trans debate and not as playable as Labour think. I say this as someone who voted Labour all my life, I’m appalled by the language now used by Labour MPs and voters, referring to conservatives as Tory Scum or the Never Kissed/Fucked a Tory t shirts, that newly elected younger Kier MP who called Germaine Greer a “horrific transphobe”, rather than just saying “I don’t agree with her views” to have so much aggression for a woman who has done so much for gender of women and feminism is chilling. I’m appalled at how angry the left has become, and that because they believe their anger is justified they can do anything, say anything and destroy anyone. Not for me. I will probably just not vote anymore. Their loss.

senua · 24/07/2023 14:26

Thanks, vipers, for responding to MissAnneLister so I didn't have to. Did you notice how she could only try to fling mud; she couldn't find anything positive to say about the Left / Labour.

mirax · 24/07/2023 14:29

HPFA · 24/07/2023 08:52

The left have done much better than expected. Not sure why this is a "lesson" for Keir Starmer.

Show quote history

Same way Corbyn won in 2017? Lol. Europe is taking a massive turn to the right for many reasons and the good thing about the UK is that the racist extreme right has always been sidelined by the electorate and has no chance of getting anywhere near the levers of power.

Signalbox · 24/07/2023 14:30

MissAnneLister · 24/07/2023 13:53

The Tory party don't care about women. At all. They are actively fascist, want to remove women's reproductive rights, want to remove all sorts of basic human rights, want to remove freedom of speech (it's the Tory party that will result in you being arrested for attending a GC protest, and the Tory party responsible for police knocking on the doors of women who have tweeted GC stuff).

That's without the astounding level of criminal corruption and lies.

And yes they are actively trying to exploit GC believes to promote fascism and the rise of the far right.

Voting for a woman-hating fascist party is a vote against women.

There's a lot of posters who would happily vote for Gilead on the basis "at least they know what a woman is!"

The only reason the Tories define womanhood by our reproductive organs is to be able to label and control us. They hate women.

😂🤣😂

fromorbit · 24/07/2023 14:31

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:07

Helen Joyce is and always has been a conservative.

Helen Joyce says she is centre right. She worked for the Economist until recently.

There are many different variants of feminism. Feminism is not automatically left wing and the left are not automatically feminist. After 60-odd years of modern feminism I am amazed that there are still people confused about this.

Joyce usually says she is a liberal. Belief in free markets, free ideas, atheist etc. Sounds like a liberal to me. You get people like that in Labour, Tories, SNP, and of course the Lib Dems. She is clearly not a socialist that is fair to say.

AlisonDonut · 24/07/2023 14:33

Even outside of this issue.

What skills does anyone in Labour actually have that could possibly improve the UK in any way?

What is their actual plan?

What are their actual policies and how are they going to find it all?

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:37

Joyce usually says she is a liberal. Belief in free markets, free ideas, atheist etc.

She also called herself centre right though to be fair I can't remember which of many YouTube interviews that was. It was in response to someone assuming she was leftwing.

"Clearly not a socialist" fits the bill. So does "Not a fascist"

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 14:55

Brk · 24/07/2023 11:14

Oh, don’t forget, Labour do have one clear policy! Their hate campaign against children in private schools. An odd choice of flagship policy: stoking hate and division and making schoolchildren a political football. It won’t end well.

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Hardly! How is making private schools pay fair tax a "hate campaign against schoolchildren"? 😂

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 15:07

MissAnneLister · 24/07/2023 13:53

The Tory party don't care about women. At all. They are actively fascist, want to remove women's reproductive rights, want to remove all sorts of basic human rights, want to remove freedom of speech (it's the Tory party that will result in you being arrested for attending a GC protest, and the Tory party responsible for police knocking on the doors of women who have tweeted GC stuff).

That's without the astounding level of criminal corruption and lies.

And yes they are actively trying to exploit GC believes to promote fascism and the rise of the far right.

Voting for a woman-hating fascist party is a vote against women.

There's a lot of posters who would happily vote for Gilead on the basis "at least they know what a woman is!"

The only reason the Tories define womanhood by our reproductive organs is to be able to label and control us. They hate women.

Great post

CliantheLang · 24/07/2023 15:10

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2023 14:37

Joyce usually says she is a liberal. Belief in free markets, free ideas, atheist etc.

She also called herself centre right though to be fair I can't remember which of many YouTube interviews that was. It was in response to someone assuming she was leftwing.

"Clearly not a socialist" fits the bill. So does "Not a fascist"

I think Joyce said she was centre right in reponse to socfems attacking Kellie Jay Keen.

About the Guardian article, Claire's Outrageous Thoughts (Feminist Claire on YouTube) does a good breakdown on Twitter. Thread is archived.

https://twitter.com/claireOT/status/1683410132024041472

SunnyEgg · 24/07/2023 15:12

AlisonDonut · 24/07/2023 14:33

Even outside of this issue.

What skills does anyone in Labour actually have that could possibly improve the UK in any way?

What is their actual plan?

What are their actual policies and how are they going to find it all?

I don’t know but going by the insults that usually happen the supporters don’t know either.

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 15:15

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

In Europe, we should know the danger of turning a blind eye to warning signs. Yet when people point out the similarities between the Conservative rhetoric and fascists its written off as hysteria.

I can fully understand people not voting Labour because of their policies but i can't understand why any woman would vote Conservative. They will shaft us.

Signalbox · 24/07/2023 15:17

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

Like?

Boomboom22 · 24/07/2023 15:18

AdamRyan · 24/07/2023 15:15

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

In Europe, we should know the danger of turning a blind eye to warning signs. Yet when people point out the similarities between the Conservative rhetoric and fascists its written off as hysteria.

I can fully understand people not voting Labour because of their policies but i can't understand why any woman would vote Conservative. They will shaft us.

Are you ok? Do you mean when people point out the similarity of the tra and extene left with their totalitarian views to nazism they are deleted because apparently a real actual comparison of what us happening is hurtful but don't delete your drivel as it is so demonstrably untrue?

Boomboom22 · 24/07/2023 15:20

Shall we have a think? Who supports

Cancelling people
Violence against wrong think
Reporting to the authorities
Doxxing
Getting people sacked
Book burning

Not the tories is it!!

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 15:21

There are loads of features of the current incarnation of the Conservative party that are similar to fascist authoritarian regimes.

Please give some specific examples of the similarities?

lifeturnsonadime · 24/07/2023 15:23

Nothing more authoritarian, btw, than telling women they are bigots for not believing that humans can change sex and not wanting men to have access to women's spaces and sports. Which is what the labour party has done by expelling women for 'wrong think'.

RealityFan · 24/07/2023 15:24

I wait everyday for a reason to vote Labour.
Cancel the Tories anti demo laws. Pass.
Reverse the two child limit. Pass.
Have a vaguely rational policy on Brexit. Pass.
Moves to re-nationalise water. Pass.

But...reform GRA. Of course.
Talk about Self ID. Of course.
Trans conversion ban. Of course.
Online anti hate speech laws to chill GC discussion. Of course.

At same time, promising nothing of any principle other than extending laws for a miniscule part of the population, at the permanent disadvantage of a population group 1000x larger.