How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I'm really worried about the direction politics is taking, not only in the UK but globally. The right wing is on the rise almost everywhere for various reasons.

Sadly, the gender debate will undoubtedly be a gift to the right wing over the next few years. It's the Tories ace card at the next election; the left as they are at the moment can't win this debate.

What can we practically do to prevent this? I have tried speaking to my local Mp (Labour), and he basically told me to "be kind".

Given that I have left the LibDems after they flatly refused to answer any of my entirely valid questions, I honestly have no idea.

I feel completely let down by the Left and Centre.

Stay in left wing parties (if they'll let you...) and argue your case. I say this as a complete hypocrite who resigned my Labour membership when my MP signed the pledge calling for my expulsion, but I admire Rosie Duffield and others who have stayed to keep fighting- I'm even thinking of trying to rejoin. You're right, it's a worry. The left are making it very difficult for GCs, but we can't just capitulate.

We can't. The left wing parties need to wake up and realise this is a massive vote loser. It's not that we haven't been telling them; it's that they refuse to listen.

Look at it this way. If all the rational centre left socialist voters move into the right wing through lack of anywhere else to go and take up residence there, it's not going to be very right wing any more.

The trans issue has come as a welcome relief to many who can now be much more openly right wing but didn't want to look 'bad'.

You think people haven't tried to make all the UK parties see sense?
So having realised that 'free speech' ( a right wing policy in general) is the only thing which will allow any of this nonsense to be rolled back, I have switched my political allegiance to a mainstream UK party...the Tories. The Tories are the only ones who don't tell their anti gender woo MPs to 'Be Quiet' and 'Be Kind'.
The moment the Labour Party said people who didn't agree TWAW should be expelled, was the moment I realised I would never vote Labour again. (I already didn't trust them on Corbyn and potentially being dragged into another Scottish Independence Ref by SNP holding a power balance).
When parties show you who they are and what they really think...believe them.

I don't know if I want to save the left from themselves anymore. I've always been centre left, always voted for left wing parties. But now I just don't know. They are, all of them, happy to piss all over women to satisfy the urges of perverse men.

Maybe we are better working to make the right of centre parties more central? We don't have the same far right parties in the UK as in Europe, really it is just the Tories. Getting Brexit through has essentially put paid to UKIP amd the BNP.

It just seems like trying to make the Tories a bit less bastardy might be more achievable than trying to get Labour or the Lib Dems to acknowledge women are actual real humans.

Me too!

Politically homeless no-one will care about my vote as a divorced woman who had to give up work to care for her disabled child

I'm clueless about the next election utterly clueless

Kier Starmer should be looking at what's happening in Spain tonight and rethinking his policy, but he won't.

No. It's actually for me very interesting to observe on this board in particular. The threads which would make for excellent study are those in which women appear to be contorting themselves into pretzels in order to justify voting for the tories, among others has been the comparison of similar US-based groups. It'd be too simplistic to describe GC feminism as a gateway to the far right, alt-right types - especially among a certain demographic of British women, but the parallels are striking. My friends and I discuss this all the time!

What is happening in Spain?

@RealityFan Didn't tag you, but my post just above was in response.

I'm pretty sure that the Tory Party is screwed at this point when it comes to winning the next election. They also aren't that "right wing". Law and order under the Tory Party is probably no different to the Lib Dems. They may talk tough sometimes but they aren't going to do anything.

In the US, I don't know how you would turn the Democrats around. They could take a more cautious and balanced approach but they just don't want to.

It is not for us, the electorate, to prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing. It is for the left wing parties to get their collective heads out of their collective arses and start talking some damned sense again.

If it is a gift - it is the left wing parties who are making that gift to the right wing. If they want to suicide, if they're too deep down the rabbit hole, there's nowt we voters can really do about it.

I'm saying this as someone who will vote tactically for a Labour government and finds the current right wing a frightening bunch of corrupt renegades. The most important thing imo is not to pretend to ourselves. So:

I don't think it is necessarily that much of a vote loser, not to the left. Labour are looking at the age polling on this. Tiny numbers planning to vote Conservative under about 35, and big numbers of the same age group who say yes to rather vague statements about 'supporting trans people'. Big big numbers of very young people at Trans Pride.

The right wing like it because it's bog easy to campaign on - they don't have to do anything except say 'this is bad and all down to mad lefties, but of course it's up to individual sports bodies/service providers to fix it' and it shores up some of their voters who might otherwise stay at home or even switch.

I think Keir Starmer would rather not have to touch this one. That's what gives me hope - he's not likely to have his picture taken with an unstable 20 year old male youth and declare them a tip top Women's Officer like Corbyn did. He is a good lawyer and cautious. He will hope to take the heat out of the situation somehow. Thats why I would much rather have a Labour government. But it's true that he may be pushed into actions that I oppose. That's democracy.

Agree that the more typically left wing parties need to make a drastic change. However I will still be voting Labour.

“The facts of life are conservative.” - Margaret Thatcher.

Women are female. Trans-identified males are men. Those are the facts of life, and if stating those facts is deemed to be a conservative position, so be it.

Yawns. Every time someone tells me I am just looking for an excuse to vote for the tories I think of all the times I've held my nose and voted Labour because the alternative was unthinkable. Well sorry but I'm done with fantasists. The stories have screwed up so badly that Labour are likely to end up in coalition with the lib dems and/or the snp. I might have to vote tory to reduce the risk of that happening.

I dont need an excuse to vote tory - I need a reason to believe Labour will do better. Starmer wont stand up to his activists and they live in a fantasy world. But before I consider voting for the stories I am going to need to see some positive action to change, starting with issuing firm guidance to schools. Talk just does not cut it.

Anyone who thinks there is going to be a massive difference between what a Labour government will do and what a tory government will do is deluded. The country is broke.

But it's not that "right wing". From polling it's the centre ground to be GC.

And people do risk "looking bad" even when it's perfectly mainstream to have these beliefs.

What even IS the Left any more?

Really the old left is the new tory, lower to middle working class, reality based with some ambition.

I always voted labour, always. My candidate basically told me he didn't wantt my vote if I didn't believe TWAW.
I despise the tories but are grateful for their stance on this, whether a ploy or not.

But I won't vote for them.

I won't vote for Labour either.

I could say to you trans liberation is also alt right, the unholy symbiosis of Pritzker Institute and the like, $$$$$$$ medico-legal-industrial complex incl Dentons lobbyist obfuscation in the relentless pursuit of transhumanism.

Get trans liberation as a concept forced upon the populace and set in legal concrete, and the corporations will do the rest.

Read some Mary Harrington some time.

Me and my friends discuss this all the time!