How can we prevent the trans issue from being a gift to the right wing?

[TheTERFnextDoor]

I'm really worried about the direction politics is taking, not only in the UK but globally. The right wing is on the rise almost everywhere for various reasons.

Sadly, the gender debate will undoubtedly be a gift to the right wing over the next few years. It's the Tories ace card at the next election; the left as they are at the moment can't win this debate.

What can we practically do to prevent this? I have tried speaking to my local Mp (Labour), and he basically told me to "be kind".

I worry about it slightly differently, I think anyway, although from your follow up post maybe not.
Backlashes are never pleasant. If people are forced to pretend to hold opinions they are not that keen on really, then when they get an opportunity things turn nasty very quickly.
I worry that extremist trans activists will pish things so far that it will lead to a quite nasty backlash against all things lgbtq. And perhaps also a strong reinforcement of traditional 'womaning' ie stay at home in the kitchen.
That is not the fault of feminists.

This^

I don’t see it as a left/right wing issue. There will be women of all political persuasions and none who are affected by this. It affects females fullstop. I think part of the problem with debate/politics these days is looking at an idea from the perspective of which tribe endorses it rather than whether the idea has merit on it’s own standing. I think less ideology would be better than more generally.

I also think the Uk as a whole has moved past worrying about what gay people are doing, there is no lie there and no harm. The trans stuff has a lie at the centre of it which leads to harm and thats the crux of people’s discomfort with it. I don’t necessarily think the UK has a lot of latent homophobia. As a society we are generally not particularly religious. Countries like Italy and Spain are still very Catholic.

I want a party that does (as a minimum) 3 key things:

• reform social care (Dilnott or something similar), partly because it’s right and partly as a way of reducing pressure on the NHS
• make taxation fairer and more progressive. Rich should pay more, reduce regressive taxes and massive cliff edges.
• Protect single sex spaces and services

Does this make me right wing? Who on earth do I vote for? These are my three red lines.

Get the left wing to admit it is an issue for women and girls

Good luck it won’t be easy.

The gender issue is in the cultural arena, and whichever politics left or right will serve the prevailing belief system.
Governments control defence, energy, the economy, housing, transport, health care and education.
Is gender woo more important than all of those?

Some usual posts on the thread about women ‘looking bad’ etc

They don’t get the problem with gender ideology and are part of the group you’ll never convince op.

As for rise of far right in Europe, totally predictable. Two reasons but one is the left causing push back. The more you tell people lies and try to control the more people kick back.

Also migration part of it

I've always voted Conservative and will continue to do so. The GC issue has no bearing. I'm also not embarrassed to be right wing as I wouldn't expect those on the other side of the spectrum to be embarrassed either. There's no right or wrong, as much as MN perceives Tories to be evil.

If an alternative party emerged that was more in line with my political views, I'd vote for them as I don't think the Conservative Party has covered itself in glory. But I won't be voting Lib Dem or Labour.

While MN is fairly left wing, it's not representative of my friends and I can only think of one Labour voter. In fairness, we live in a wealthy area which may have a bearing on voting choices.

I see conflict from some left wing GC posters. As it’s a difficult position to be in.

The pretzel stuff comes from committed gender ideologists as there is a fundamental flaw. What they advocate for is built on a fundamental lie. At some point they will go full pretzel to push that on to society.

@Rudderneck that would be more convincing if there weren't a Democratic presidency and Senate right now. I agree that the African American vote for Democratic candidates has reduced - 90% voted for Biden and that is a lower proportion than in the past.

A much bigger drop in the Hispanic vote and I'd agree with your analysis there.

@dissidente I agree at least to some extent. What keeps me on the GC side is that I can't accept the state telling deliberate lies in policy - the 'assigned at birth' stuff is just wrong, and all parties are currently paying lip service to this. I do believe the best protection for girls in particular is to focus on folding gender back into general CAMHS services. The Tory shredding of CAMHS funding alongside other mental health services is one of the things that mean I will never vote for them.

Same here. Feel like they’re gifting themselves to the right wing.

It’s interesting that the left wing don’t look at their role

Op there’s your answer the left won’t self reflect on why there’s a shift away

Sorry but you 100% choose which party you vote into power. There’s no one holding a gun to your head forcing you to vote one way or another. Stop making excuses and acting like you are not choosing where to use your voting power.

the redefinition of women away from “adult human female” and towards “adult human female and special men with special lady feelings” affects 51% of the population

I can’t give af anymore if this is a gift to the right. Women here have been effectively and literally told to fuck off by Labour, Lib Dem’s and greens and told they don’t want our votes.

well guess what??

i will never vote Tory, never have, never will but I’m not voting for any others either so yep another politically homeless woman

And the attitude of the posters who flock here to scold us is exactly the attitude we get when we raise it with Labour, Lib Dem’s and greens. We’re used to it.

Well said. You choose to vote Tory and you’re not pretending that you’re being forced against you will to vote that way. You’re owning your choices.

I think what I reflect on is that there doesn't seem to be much of a shift away from the left because of this.

Spain has this morning not got the hard right result that was predicted. Vast swings to the left in Selby and Frome a few days ago. Democrats in power in the US. Etc.

Absolutely this!

It is not women's responsibility to get this government voted out of power. That's the opposition's job, and if they have alienated some of their most loyal voters to such an extent then that is their fault and theirs alone.

Most of the replies here, @Fawful are not 'rabidly Tory'. What you are seeing is a mass of left/centre women who are utterly fucked off with the parties they would otherwise vote for.@FlirtsWithRhinos was spot on there: why should we vote for people who are telling us to ignore our oppression and that women don't really exist?

I've never voted Tory in a national election. It will probably be a spoilt ballot this time.

'Rabidly Tory' my arse. @Fawful in saying that you reveal yourself: bad wimms who don't agree with you are obviously right-wing nut-jobs who can be ignored.

Except Brussels have said this morning they are concerned about the shift to the far right in Europe

Your mistake is in thinking that anyone needs in any way to justify any of their choices to you. Talk about delusions of grandeur.
Posters are justifying their choices to each other in these replies, not to me 🤷‍♀️
The premise of the thread is that OP doesn't want to vote for the right, and half the answers are about why she should do it anyway against her judgement.
We're not 'flocking here' to tell you to vote another way; we're responding to answers the OP is getting.
Also, trans issues fall under identity politics, if we're going to use that term at all. Or do identity politics only get to be labelled as such when they concern the right of black people and Muslims?

? Women hold 51% of the votes in this country. So women literally decide who is in power.

The OP doesn't want to vote to the right, and there's answers like ' actually, the right is more clever', 'I'm not ashamed of voting Tory'. OK - but the OP doesn't want to do that.