Does anyone feel less inclined these days to wear makeup and skirts or dresses due to the focus on femininity as what defines woman?

[Quietlyhere]

This is something I've noticed in myself. Never wore a lot of makeup but now, in an age of celebrating drag queens everywhere and defining women as those who are feminine, I am much more likely to be found in comfy trousers and t-shirts/jumpers, and no makeup. Still very much a woman.

Of course I'm not saying women should change, everyone should wear what they like as long as certain body parts are sufficiently covered up. Just an observation of my own choices shifting in this climate.

Wear what you like”normally means “wear something so others recognise you”
Does it? To me it means wear what you like.
Not what others think I should wear.
I dont think I know anyone who wouldn't think that.

Right?

I like to wear feminine dresses / hair / makeup and always will but even when I dress down it's pretty obvious I am a women .Men who wear dresses look exactly that .... Men wearing dresses / Men in drag.
Just like clowns , a face full of over the top makeup and just as fucking creepy !

Sorry clicked to soon 🙄. It does make me stop and think about what I'm wearing sometimes which I never did before which is worrying as clothing is very important to me. I feel that this trans shit show is beginning to derail who I am .

“I’ve not let myself go” and “I’m (not) letting part of myself go” have different meanings in English.

The second would mean allowing a part of yourself change the first definitively implies deterioration. So to phrase it that way is to imply others on the thread who have changed from wearing skirts and makeup to trousers and no makeup are allowing themselves to deteriorate.

It’s a phrase often used about other people who are considered to have stopped looking after themselves properly and have become dirty or so careless about their appearance that it’s a bit grim.

So perhaps you didn’t understand that phrase properly, @Fluffycloudsblusky but it holds an clear implication that you think women who don’t wear makeup and dresses or skirts are inferior and not making enough effort.

I have never been big on dresses or makeup and now I’m older, applying makeup in a way that satisfies me is now beyond my (always limited) skills. I also completely abandoned skirts and dresses when I left my marriage, because I was reclaiming who I once was, so no, I don’t think the focus on femininity defining womanhood has made a significant difference to me, but I understand why it might.

No because I never bought into all this 'women are conditioned by society to wear heels/makeup/dress like a princess. because they can't think for themselves'

But it can be said every person on the planet is conditioned to do everything they do so I just meet a basic society standard ie I wear acceptable work clothes and am happy with that

Sad?? For giving herself to a righteous cause? The second wave looked beyond their own comfort and we have a lot to thank them for.

OP I know what you mean, but in a different way.

I was brought up to look attractive. I could say that that just made me feel good, but my mother didn't decide all by herself what was attractive, that was determined by society and designed to be attractive to men (unless lesbians are running the fashion and beauty world?). So I was brought up to look good for men. I didn't wear clothes I didn't like, but I also didn't wear clothes that made me feel "unattractive". And the idea of "letting myself go" would mean not being put together in a way men would find unattractive. It was definitely a Bad Thing.

A few months I gave birth for the first time it dawned on me that "being feminine" was usually in contrast to "being masculine" and that was all a load of bollocks because I'd just grown and birthed a human! It was a messy, powerful, and in my case, wonderful experience. It wasn't in any way "feminine" in the way that's commonly meant, it was far too full of power for that.

My dressing started to change after that. I haven't worn anything with a flower on since then. I see another dress in a shop with dainty flowers on and sigh. I love flowers, but only in the ground. Btw I don't care in the slightest if other women like wearing flowers, I don't even notice. It's only if they're for me.

Nowadays though I am very aware of the messages my children are receiving so I wear makeup some days, don't other days (and if my face "looks like it needs colour", well that's a shame for the onlooker, but I'm fine), I wear dresses and I wear trousers, I wear sloppy clothes and I wear more put together ones. I wear jewellery and I don't wear it.

It's personally very nice to not give a shit and wear what I feel like wearing, but I want my children to see that women can present any which way and the same woman can wear whatever she wants and she's still a woman. It's not performative - now that I'm not remotely trying to look "good" aka attractive to men, I'm not giving it up for anybody - but I am aware of it and I think it's an added bonus for my kids.

I'm also aware when I meet a friend who insists her daughter is her son because she likes "masculine" things (jewellery making, drawing, going with her dad to the pub!) including "men's" clothes, that the woman she's sitting opposite to is often wearing a far more "masculine" ensemble than her daughter ever is. I'm also not dressing for her either, but I'm definitely more aware of things like that these days. I can't say for sure it never influences me, because it's on my mind at times, but it doesn't drive how I dress.

• And the idea of "letting myself go" would mean not being put together in a way men would find unattractive.

Correction!

@OctogenarianDecathlete Do you get 'sir'? I've had it a few times recently, short hair but obviously female.

Drag queens just highlight how ridiculous and humiliating the trappings of femininity are. Yes they are more exaggerated in drag, but there is no male equivalent - no male beauty or fashion trends which could be exaggerated and used to make a caricature of to mock and submit men, from which men would then draw their own fashion inspiration in a reciprocal relationship, as women do.

So you're not unreasonable to notice that and be uncomfortable with it.

I haven't worn make up for years, though I do wear skirts and dresses. I tend to ask myself whether the average man would feel the need to do whatever it is or equivalent, and if the answer's no and there's no different biological reason that I'd do it as a woman then it's probably not going to be something I'd do. I can't be bothered with the faff or the expense and I don't like the feeling that I don't look acceptable as I am without enhancement. I do get rid of my chin hairs though .

I understand where you are coming from, OP, and when I first became aware of gender identity ideology and its assumptions about femininity, I also reassessed my personal style, perhaps, in a way, to show that clothing and make-up are superficial and irrelevant to what we are.

However, over the years, I have turned this around a bit because people around us do react to how we dress, and it gives us an opportunity to learn something about them and to influence how we are perceived. It’s not about you, it’s about the others. Dressing well and dressing to convey subtle messages is a real skill and if you are good at it, why not use it to your advantage?

It’s interesting to me how TRAs often comment negatively on women who dress in what they regard as ‘unfeminine’ ways. (Example: Munroe Bergdorf’s comment on ‘hairy lesbians’ IIRC.) Somebody also once said that one of the reasons why Posie Parker gets them so angry is her feminine personal style which comes across as effortless.

I have also observed subtle changes in teenage fashion that to me seem to be a bit of a push-back against the ultra-feminine, artificial look - wide cargo pants, little make-up, crop tops, showing off natural female body shapes that are extremely hard to emulate by those who are not female. Imagine Eddie Izzard in brown cargo pants and a simple white cotton crop top and you will know what I mean.

I think you have mixed me with some one else. I didn’t say anything about 'letting myself go‘

Dress/tracksuit/sack - what everyone one is wearing it’s usually really obvious who is a man and who is a woman.

I have also observed subtle changes in teenage fashion that to me seem to be a bit of a push-back against the ultra-feminine, artificial look - wide cargo pants, little make-up, crop tops, showing off natural female body shapes that are extremely hard to emulate by those who are not female. Imagine Eddie Izzard in brown cargo pants and a simple white cotton crop top and you will know what I mean.
Interesting. I've noticed that particular fashion among female teens but it didn't occurred to me until you mentioned it, that it would look very different on a male body.
Wrt the OP, no, I haven't changed. I don't wear much makeup but I do wear a lot of dresses, but that's mostly a body shape thing. I'm fairly round in the middle and it's more comfortable to wear a dress than try find trousers that fit!
I don't want to change that. Wearing a dress isn't what makes me a woman. I don't particularly care if men wore dresses either. Perhaps more should. They can be comfortable.
It's male people putting on dresses and claiming that's a sign they're really a woman that I have a problem with. Women are female people, not people who wear dresses.

Correct it was me and it is a personal thing so I do not care what others wear or whatever I only care about what I wear and how I look and regardless of others I intend to continue looking the way I do as it makes me feel good about myself the same as we all dress hopefully for ourselves and to feel good about ourselves be it in heels or trainers or what not.

I will be working alone today and I still have showered and put on makeup and done my hair and have a nice outfit picked out. I may not see anyone at all today bar my kids but it makes me feel nice to look this way.

Oddly enough it has made me think about the messages people receive when they see how I present myself

I am not a dresses and make up person but I do wear lots of Seasalt which has lots of colour and patterns that men don't get to wear.

And my thoughts were well people have always been stupid making assumptions about me and changing how I dress wouldn't affect that

But also its sad men can't wear such things if they would like to , and I do think many would wear more pattern and colour if they felt comfortable rather pushing boundaries with it

Unless I'm dressed for camping, I always dress feminine in dresses or feminine tops with jeans. I never wear make up. I can't be bothered with having to take it off. My hair is a bit below shoulder length but not styled in any special way.

Nope I just wear what I want, I would say the emergence of casual and comfy clothes and less make up and stuff is probably to do with lockdown rather than anything else.

Apologies, it was @Neverinamonthofsundays

When I say thinking about it

That including a thinking about why certain outfits "make you feel good"

Because logically heels don't make you feel good - they physically damage you - and usually our bodies would give out pain signals on damage - so it must just be in your mind that you feel good about sone things. matching a mental image of a successful women/ lauded celebrities ?

No I haven't because what I wear doesn't define who I am.

I don’t really wear skirts, the odd dress but no generally I’m still wearing trousers and tops etc, have done for decades and I’m happy and comfortable, I dress for practically, I’m not stylish either. However you will have to take my eyebrow pencil out of my cold dead hands.

But yeah it hasn’t really affected me in terms of how I present because for me a woman is a biological fact, I don’t feel like being feminine or not affects my womanhood. I just am.

Well I am fairly short so wearing a heel does actually make me feel good and a decent wedge heel is comfortable. I cannot walk in flats at all. When at home I am barefoot but outside of the home I would always have a heel of some description on as I feel less frumpy with the extra height.

I do not follow celebrities and have no social media bar here and fb and only follow friends on there so not into celebs or 'influencers'. I wear what I feel nice in it really is that simple. Today I have a 2inch heel on and about to flounce off to the empty office and totter around alone all day lol