Is it offensive to say "straight" or "neurotypical"?

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

I've been trying to understand why the gender critical movement are saying "cis" is offensive and still not quite getting it since it just means "not trans" (cis and trans are prefixes with opposite meanings).

From what I can gather the argument given by the gender critical movement is that the "default" is not-trans, therefore there shouldn't need to be a word for the "default", just as we don't have a specific word for someone who doesn't collect stamps (an example I've seen given).

But we have "straight" and "heterosexual" to refer to people who aren't homo/bi-sexual, we also have "neurotypical" to refer to people with typical neurological development or functioning. You could say these are also "defaults".

So why is "cisgender" an apparent "offensive slur" when straight and neurotypical aren't?

Opposite sex attracted/orientation.

The thing is, when you're the majority/dominant sexual orientation it's inevitable that there won't be such a range of terms and terminology as generally normative expectations are unremarkable so don't foment new and novel terminology in the same way that happens in social groups which are outwith those normative expectations.

Also, the 'straight/bent' binary excludes bisexuals. So I suppose it could be considered biphobic too.

Straight is and was used as an antonym for bent.

Bent was a common insult in the 70s and 80s in my experience i.e., I actually witnessed it myself.

Non religious and atheist aren’t the same thing.

I am not religious but not an atheist.

Yes we have words for things.

If you want to be able to denote wether someone is a woman or transwoman. You use women or trans woman.

The word woman has a meaning already. It doesn’t want or need anything adding to it.

not to mention the laughable hypocrisy or trying to insist women accept a certain label when a woman doesn’t want it. While crying how about important it is that we use a trans persons preferred labels to make them feel better.

OP seems to have disappeared

one has to wonder how they thought this thread would go

Oh, well. I was hoping for something snappier than "opposite sex attracted". Particularly when "straight" actually came from the gay community in the first place! What are you doing about getting rid of "straight" in all official documents, guidance and training material? Stonewall still use it, for example.

@JillyQ "Maybe this is true, but when heterosexuals started using "b*nt" as a slur "str@ight" was being used as a backhanded slur."

I REALLY don't think this is historically accurate.

Straight is offensive when used to label other people because people throw it around making assumptions about people when they don't know if they're actually bi. So it's biphobic, which is a form of homophobia. Many people assume I'm straight when I'm not and it is really offensive.
So if someone said you are when you're not, surely it's a case of saying "actually, I'm not straight, I'm bi?"
In which case people should apologise for assuming and stop calling you it, or is that just me.
Just like if someone said they weren't c*s, I'd take their word for it that they didnt identify as a woman or a man, that they didnt have a gender.

'Cis' essentially means 'identifying as the sex that I actually am'. It is bizarre to create (as a subset of the category 'sex') a category of actually being that sex (as opposed to wanting to be that sex or falsely believing oneself to be that sex.

Am I 'cis-limbed' if I don't have body integrity identity disorder (ie if I don't believe that I need to amputate one or more healthy limbs in order to be truly myself)? No.

I see Merlin posted several times and pretended not to see the multitude of posters who’ve pointed out that “cis” does not mean “non-trans” any more than “heterosexual” means “non-gay” and that cis means agreeing with a neo-religion we don’t believe in.

Too hard to answer, so better to ignore, eh Merlin?

Also pretending still that “transwoman” with or without the space is not an adjective and a noun, but a noun that means “man who claims he is a woman”. Therefore there can be no occasion when there is confusion between the groups “transwomen” and “women” as there is no overlap.

Of course we do not need to clarify whether someone is trans or not because use of the word “transwoman” is perfectly clear and to use the word “woman” for that man, without the prefix is simply incorrect.

I think “not here to discuss in good faith” is probably the correct term.

'Het' is snappy and neutral.

Straight implies things about people who aren't straight. Surely you can see the issue with that?

If you're not straight, you're bent.

I think you come here to deliberately try and upset people. But yet again
Cis does not mean opposite. It means conform to and gc don't conform, feminists are the gender non confirming ones so it is offensive to say as it implies biological women are all nurturers who wear dresses and defer to men.
As I know you know!

If you use the definition that is from Stonewall, it means not trans.

I agree with the poster who said... why do we waste so much time and emotion trying to explain to someone who will never agree ...

#nothankyou

Does anyone have a good comparison for how compelled speech of another belief system could but shouldn't be forced on people in the workplace or schools?

MalagaNights it's hard to find plausible examples because people who recognise that their belief is a religious belief that not everyone shares obviously handle it differently from how gender identity ideologues handle their views as they see them as scientific fact as opposed to belief.

Similarly, I don't think proponents of gender identity would be convinced by an analogy between gender identity and religion as they wouldn't recognise the connection because gender identity is a scientific fact to them, so they would just see it as comparing apples and oranges.

I don't think you want to engage with this in good faith, but "cis" implies buy in to the concept of gender. I don't "identify" as a woman or as female. I am female. I don't really believe Trans women are women, which is what cis requires - cis says "I am a category of woman based on identity, because I identify as that which I was born as". I just don't accept that you can identify as a woman, if what you mean by woman is an adult human female. If you don't mean woman by that, then what you mean is "I would like to live my life by a particular set of sex based norms and stereotypes [that match what I would like my body to be]" - well, that's not how I feel at all. I'd rather live in a world in which we treated people according to sex when it matters and where we don't impose expectations based on sex. Be a man in a dress in a men's prison, or a man's toilet, thanks.

What are you doing about getting rid of "straight" in all official documents, guidance and training material? Stonewall still use it, for example

(1) Gay people are a bit busy at the moment trying to defend our right to have homosexuality recognised as same sex attraction, but thanks for your interest in how we're spending our time.

(2) Stonewall say a great many homophobic things and certainly don't speak for me as a lesbian, so the fact they use the term straight is the least of my worries at the moment.

If people actually think they're being allies to gay people by taking advice from Stonewall on how to talk to (and about) gay people, then that explains where this recent wave of rampant homophobia is coming from.

A recent comment on my town's Pride parade- "Straight people haven't been discriminated against for their sexuality!". Er.....they are now though. By the trans activists.

Let me explain.

The terms cisgender and transgender are not the problem. I don't think anyone would mind if the term "transgender man" was used to describe a male person who identifies as a woman. Because then it would be an accurate term to describe the type of man he is. The problem is that such a person tends to be referred to instead as a transgender woman. This is inaccurate because it implies that the person in question sits within the category of woman, rather than within the category of man. I would happily be described as a ciswoman if the term transwoman was used to describe females who identify as men, and the term transman was used to describe males who identify as women.

Let me put it another way. I am a female who is attracted to males. I'm not male-attracted lesbian or a hetero-lesbian. I'm no kind of lesbian at all and have no right to call myself one.

I would happily be described as a ciswoman if the term transwoman was used to describe females who identify as men, and the term transman was used to describe males who identify as women.

But since "cis" means "on the same side", what would it be referring to in non-trans people who don't believe that everyone has a gender identity?

What is on the same side of what if you take gender identity out of the equation?

If a ciswoman is someone who identifies as female, I am not a ciswoman despite being born female.Nor am I a trans man.
I’m biologically female and use female pronouns, as is traditional.
That doesn’t mean I identify as stereotypically female. I don’t identify as a gender, because I neither believe in nor conform to gender stereotypes. Doing so would be a big step back for equal rights.
Trans people can identify however they want, or choose not to.
Biological women should be allowed the same privilege, rather than having a requirement imposed to identify as either/ or.

OP buggered off?

Odd.

That's not strictly correct. If you want to get technical on the language side, the original translations of both words, trans and cis, have been fudged. "Cis" means "on this side" which is not quite the same as "on the same side", and "trans" just means "across".

One way they were originally used was "Transalpine Gaul" and "Cisalpine Gaul" to denote which side of the Alps each bit of France was. The Alps themelves were neither Transalpine nor Cisalpine, they were just Alpine!

Leaving that aside, if transpeople want a word to describe themselves in contrast to others I dont have a massive issue with that. Just don't use the word "woman" to describe a male person, regardless of prefix!

One way they were originally used was "Transalpine Gaul" and "Cisalpine Gaul" to denote which side of the Alps each bit of France was. The Alps themelves were neither Transalpine nor Cisalpine, they were just Alpine!

And in any case, if we consider something involving change (as in transition) then we have a Transpennine railway which runs from one side to the other. We don't call the east or west coast lines cispennine.