Is it offensive to say "straight" or "neurotypical"?

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

I've been trying to understand why the gender critical movement are saying "cis" is offensive and still not quite getting it since it just means "not trans" (cis and trans are prefixes with opposite meanings).

From what I can gather the argument given by the gender critical movement is that the "default" is not-trans, therefore there shouldn't need to be a word for the "default", just as we don't have a specific word for someone who doesn't collect stamps (an example I've seen given).

But we have "straight" and "heterosexual" to refer to people who aren't homo/bi-sexual, we also have "neurotypical" to refer to people with typical neurological development or functioning. You could say these are also "defaults".

So why is "cisgender" an apparent "offensive slur" when straight and neurotypical aren't?

Because 'cis' forces women into the same gender box that we have been trying to get out of for millennia. It's sexist AF.
I do not identify as the set of gendered stereotypes associated with my sex, and I strongly object to anyone forcing them on me.

But some gay people do take offence that then by old terms they're called "bent".

I hate it because I don't buy into the gender woo.
I am not a member of a subset of women (those who are not trans). I am just a woman (because humans can't change sex).

Honestly, Merlin, you've been about on this board enough, you have should have worked it out by now.

Has anyone actually come across a real life situation where "straight" is considered a slur?

It doesn't mean "not trans" though does it?

It means accepting of a specific gender

I mean as best I can tell I am transgender but I don't want or need to make a song and dance about it- it's not really something I want to be it's just what happens if a gender is enforced . Actually I want everyone to live free of gender

For clarity
I don't want to be called a ciswoman or a transman in equal measure

Ok, I get that, I can completely see why people who are gay would take offence at bent, as it is used as a slur.
Being straight isn't though.
It literally just describes that you're heterosexual. Not used as a slur, an insult, to discriminate against you.
It really is just the same argument as I don't like being called c*s because I just am what I am? isn't it!
I

No , I haven't, which is why I find it baffling on here that some people clearly do!

Use what?
Straight? If so, you're clearly not then if you're a lesbian and clearly say you are, anyone saying you are straight shouldn't use it, you're right.

Cs? Being cs has nothing to do with the fact that you're a lesbian so why should I stop saying it just because someone who is a lesbian told me to? That makes no sense.

Straight and gay are categories within one defined field, e.g. adult humans who know their sexuality.

Cis completely redefines the field. If we accept cis, woman no longer means female. It means female OR male.

It's like saying cats can be feline or canine. Cat then no longer means what it did.

Stonewall say that cis means "someone whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth".

This doesn't apply to me because I don't have a gender identity and I wasn't assigned a sex at birth. Why are trans activists so intent on applying a term to people where it doesn't fit even according to their own ideological definitions? The whole "cis just means not trans" thing has only come about because the definition above isn't applicable to the majority of the population. If you are going to come up with batshit theories and illogical made up terminology, of course people are going to rail against them.

Stonewall say that cis means "someone whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth"

Demanding people identify with their oppression is not something a human rights movement would do.
Feminists don't support gender roles because they have long been used to oppress women. To keep us at home doing the shit work while men get to go out and participate in society. To keep us focussed on looking pretty.
Gender roles are not innate. They change across cultures and throughout time. They aren't real.

Stonewall say that cis means "someone whose gender identity is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth"

What is a 'gender identity'? Let's see what Stonewall says.

Stonewall says that a persons gender identity is a person’s innate sense of their own gender.

Which is a circular definition.

Do better
🙄

@JillyQ

"straight is often considered offensive in this context as an antonym for bent."

I actually haven't come across anyone who considered it offensive. Of course that is only my experience. Could you give some examples?

What does Stonewall say 'gender' is?

Stonewall says gender is often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

So again, no definition of what it actually is.

Use what?
Straight? If so, you're clearly not then if you're a lesbian and clearly say you are, anyone saying you are straight shouldn't use it, you're right.

This thread is starting to look like another shitty way to bash lesbians again.

Why can't people understand that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things?

The words neurotypical and straight are problematic for some autistic people and gay people respectively, but that has nothing to do with whether cis is problematic for people who don't believe in gender identity.

OP, I'm happy to engage with discussions on a good faith basis but to bring in other terms that are nothing to do with gender isn't a great way to have a focussed discussion on the actual issues around the term "cisgender", if that's genuinely what you were hoping for, as it causes all sorts of confusion and misdirection as they're not the same thing. Each of these words incorporates other complex questions around disability and homosexuality that are completely irrelevant to the term "cisgender".

Also, it isn't particularly helpful to saunter in and ask if potentially offensive words are ok to use when the people you're asking aren't necessarily going to be the people who might be offended by the words. People might say they're not offended to be called bent or queer or whatever but that doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

So I'm not to describe myself as straight
I'm not to describe myself as c*s
How do I describe my sexuality and gender then if that's what I actually am?

Many gay people have explained that they find 'queer' offensive, because it was a name that was used as a term of abuse to them before the rainbow glitter movement got popular.

The TQ+ lobby say they don't care, they'll do what they want.

Women say they find 'cis' offensive when it's enforced on them by TQ+ activists whether or not they choose to identify with it.

The TQ+ lobby say they don't care, they'll do what they want.

If they say THEY find a word offensive however, you're supposed to get the hair shirt and the flail out and grovel.

Fuck all of that.

Describe yourself however you like.

Lets put those two definitions into the statement by Stonewall to see what it means

Stonewall say that cis means "someone whose innate sense of their own often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, largely culturally determined, assumed from the sex assigned at birth gender, is the same as the sex they were assigned at birth"

Now can you see why women reject the term?