Page 2 | WTF is "body-feeding"?

DuesToTheDirt · 2023-07-05T19:19:33+00:00

[[https://www.vogue.com/article/lgbtq-fertility-industry https://www.vogue.com/article/lgbtq-fertility-industry?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB]] Is it the same as chest-feeding? Who knows? Actually, maybe I don't want to know!

RudsyFarmer · 08/07/2023 07:28

WhatWouldKimDealDo · 05/07/2023 21:08

Oh, it's because you've stumbled upon the self righteous, hideously transphobic side of mumsnet where women sit about on their devices sneering at trans people, scoffing at pronouns and think they're terribly clever and feminist for deliberately using the opposite to what that person has chosen for themselves. Often you can find lots of threads where they all sit here wailing collectively about gender-neutral toilets and boycotting supermarkets because the manager has the pronouns in their signature. Don't expect to get any sort of rational discussion on this thread.

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What a lovely post.

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 07:31

Also, yet again, you're making huge leaps in your logic.
A small minority of people calling breastfeeding something they feel comfortable in won't lead to the destruction of women's rights.
There have been some problems (such as terminology used by the nhs) but that has stopped now.
Some people are different and trans people aren't going away. Quite frankly, you just need to either over it, or get used to it.
Just as many racist people from the 80s did.

PriOn1 · 08/07/2023 07:35

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 07:00

You're making completely unfounded leaps in your logic. Just because someone calls it bodyfeeding, it doesn't mean they want all women to call it that.
Language is of course important when we talk about law - ie, what makes a women.
But someone calling breastfeeding something else doesn't impact anyone's life, or view of breastfeeding, or experience of womenhood if a very small minority of people call it something else. Get a grip.
And before you start banging on about the nhs removing the word 'woman' and 'breastfeeding' from their website - that has now stopped. So there is no need to keep bullying trans people.
It's such as shame that the issues which really did impact women's rights (and should be rightly addressed) has led to a whole load of people down the garden path of being really bigoted about a trans people as a whole.
Check yourself and your belief system. Meet and talk to trans people in real life. And if you don't agree with them, it doesn't mean you should bully them.
It's like taking a genuine concern and extrapolating it out; for example 'immigrants are going to steal jobs therefore all immigrants are bad', 'Islamic terrorists are Muslim therefore I hate all Muslims', 'some trans women are rapists therefore all trans people are perverts' or 'some trans people regret transitioning therefore all must and they're obviously just gay instead'. It's really reductive and unhelpful.

”And before you start banging on about the nhs removing the word 'woman' and 'breastfeeding' from their website - that has now stopped. So there is no need to keep bullying trans people.”

The word breastfeeding is still there, but compare and contrast the pages for ovarian and prostatic cancers.

“Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer, but it mostly affects those over 50.”
^^
“The chances of developing prostate cancer increase as you get older. Most cases develop in men aged 50 or older.”

These language changes almost always erase women and not men. And that’s because the whole trans movement is sexist. It doesn’t have to be and when it stops being sexist, perhaps women will stop pointing it out.

h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght · 08/07/2023 07:40

I’ve been told by men I’m not allowed to breastfeed in public. My breasts are too crass for the public. I’m not allowed topless in public. Men are. Men’s bodies and language are not shamed and hidden away like women’s are. I’m the first generation in my family to even attempt to breastfeed in public (where it is perfectly legal to do so and has been for years). We are just starting to feel like we’re making some progress, we’re just getting breastfeeding, periods, and other discussions about female anatomy and bodies into the open, and now our language is being policed back into the dark by men who are offended by it. That’s what we object to. And if no one is personally tried to police your language and the language you use for you own body, that’s great for you, but don’t act like it isn’t happened and isn’t happening to other women. It is. It happens to me. It happens to lots of us on an individual and systemic scale.

h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght · 08/07/2023 07:42

And yes, what PriOn1 said. It’s almost always women who have to move to accommodate. Whether it’s our bodies, our language, or our safety we’re the ones who are told to “get a grip” and “be kind”. Not anymore.

FreiasBathtub · 08/07/2023 07:45

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 07:22

Yes, I agree. Language matters. Of course it does.
But you also can't police what words other people use for whatever they want. That's mad!

Agreed. No problem with an individual using body feeding or chest feeding if that's what they are comfortable with.

As far as I can see, not the case with this article. It's not a quote from someone in the article. It's a photo caption - in Vogue, a major international publication.

So...yes. I think I am allowed an opinion on that.

LMNT · 08/07/2023 07:51

@forkshoo but they are trying to police what language we use, that is the whole point. It’s not as simple as you suggest. This is a line and the more we give the more the line moves and our sex based rights go with it.

Throughout history that’s how bad things happened. Bit by bit so you don’t notice how bad it is until it’s far too late.

Mel338a · 08/07/2023 08:22

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 07:31

Also, yet again, you're making huge leaps in your logic.
A small minority of people calling breastfeeding something they feel comfortable in won't lead to the destruction of women's rights.
There have been some problems (such as terminology used by the nhs) but that has stopped now.
Some people are different and trans people aren't going away. Quite frankly, you just need to either over it, or get used to it.
Just as many racist people from the 80s did.

Why do you think it was stopped? It wasnt stonewall who stopped the spread of chest feeding as a term for an age old act that hasn’t changed, it was women and men like those who use this board highlighting the catastrophic effects that changing language can have. Then another term starts to get changed and the fight to stop starts over again. It isn’t just as simple as they’ve stopped doing that now so no problem.

body feeding- when does that begin to include other fluids, everyone will say that’s not what will happen, but I’m cynical.

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 08:39

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 07:22

Yes, I agree. Language matters. Of course it does.
But you also can't police what words other people use for whatever they want. That's mad!

Yes. When it starts to affect other people, yes you bloody well can.

This kind of sentimental don't judge no policing no boundaries bull is why lesbians have gone underground, women have been raped in prisons and babies are being used by male people for breastfeeding simulated experiences. All of which have been enabled by very stupid 'niceness'.

Fgs get a grip.

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 08:40

And lets call this what it is. It is a term used by people who have a significant difficulty with their physical reality, for an activity involving a child.

FrancescaContini · 08/07/2023 08:42

“That’s mad!” @forkshoo

Yep, pretty much sums it all up.

sanluca · 08/07/2023 08:42

Forkshoo, it is the simple saying:

Meet me in the middle says the unjust man.
You take a step forward, he takes a step back
Meet me in the middle says the unjust man

And why do people always assume we don't know transgender people? Most of us do and no, not all of them are 'nice and lovely people with no political agenda'

As to this debate of bodyfeeding vs breastfeeding, in a week whereby a man is celebrated for suggesting he can can breastfeed a baby by taking a dangerous cocktail of drugs, whilst women are berated if they take more than paracetamol when breastfeeding, the hypocrisy and double standards is getting too grating and so is the choice of words is getting harder.

Florissante · 08/07/2023 08:49

WhatWouldKimDealDo · 05/07/2023 21:08

Oh, it's because you've stumbled upon the self righteous, hideously transphobic side of mumsnet where women sit about on their devices sneering at trans people, scoffing at pronouns and think they're terribly clever and feminist for deliberately using the opposite to what that person has chosen for themselves. Often you can find lots of threads where they all sit here wailing collectively about gender-neutral toilets and boycotting supermarkets because the manager has the pronouns in their signature. Don't expect to get any sort of rational discussion on this thread.

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MagpiePi · 08/07/2023 08:51

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 07:22

Yes, I agree. Language matters. Of course it does.
But you also can't police what words other people use for whatever they want. That's mad!

So insisting we all call a man in a dress ‘she’, and talking about ‘her penis’ in rape trials, and a man taking a cocktail of drugs and hormones and feeding the resulting gunk to a baby a ‘breastfeeding mother’, isn’t policing language, but refusing to use these words because they are lies is policing language?

🙄

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 08:51

This is not about transgender people, this is about the TQ+ political lobby. Which is driving anti-women and anti-child safeguarding policy, trying to get it into law, has alarming control over the media and is working on the capture of everything to its own agenda. Through articles like this. And well intentioned people not realising they're being manipulated.

This TQ+ political lobby relies on people going awww but the trans person I know is nice so they must need this so this must be ok. Not realising how the TQ+ political lobby treats transgender people who dare to say 'hang on a minute, there's a problem with what you're saying/doing in my name' or 'I don't agree'.

Florissante · 08/07/2023 08:55

I had no idea what "body-feeding" was until I read this thread. It's breast-feeding". Always has been; always will be.

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/07/2023 09:42

"Bodyfeeding" zombie talk for people who hate their bodies.

@WhatWouldKimDealDo, you are hopelessly out of touch. Most kids these days regard their attention seeking pronoun lobby activist classmates as exactly what they are... faddy and a bit gullible.

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 09:48

When you consider that men have breast tissue, so there's nothing unmanly about breast feeding, and then we've had chest feeding, and now that isn't ok either so we're moving to body feeding....

This isn't about body dysphoria, is it? How do we get nutrition and connection into a child in a way that is even more detached from physical body? Wouldn't we say to any other mother in this much distress about breastfeeding, look love it's fine to just pick up a bottle, do not drive yourself mad. If your baby's healthy, fed and happy you've done a good job.

Florissante · 08/07/2023 09:49

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 09:48

When you consider that men have breast tissue, so there's nothing unmanly about breast feeding, and then we've had chest feeding, and now that isn't ok either so we're moving to body feeding....

This isn't about body dysphoria, is it? How do we get nutrition and connection into a child in a way that is even more detached from physical body? Wouldn't we say to any other mother in this much distress about breastfeeding, look love it's fine to just pick up a bottle, do not drive yourself mad. If your baby's healthy, fed and happy you've done a good job.

Men have virtually no breast tissue: they have nipples but not a lot else unless they have a hormonal disorder or are very overweight.

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 10:31

@MagpiePi ah the classic argument of using the extremes of a sub group as an excuse to spew bigotry against the lot of them. I can think of lots of other times in history when this logic has been used against minorities. You are no different.

Yes, language can't be policed. So anyone can use whatever pronouns they like to describe someone else. But it is polite to take into account offence.

Please can you all stop using the risk to women's rights as a smoke screen for your bigotry!

Who TF cares that a trans person calls breastfeeding body feeding??? What matters is that the NHS doesn't do it.

Who TF cares that some trans women dress in shirt dresses and wear too much makeup? What matters is that men aren't placed in women's prisons.

Check your bigotry people!

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 10:52

*obviously i mean short. But who doesn't love a shirt dress

LMNT · 08/07/2023 10:57

@forkshoo your refusal to actually read what we are trying to explain just highlights how closed minded you are.

I have zero issue with trans people. Most people on FWR will say the same. We are not bigots, we are standing up for women and girls., especially the ones who cannot see how fundamentally misogynistic and homophobic gender identity ideology is. We can talk about women’s rights without being bigoted.

Froodwithatowel · 08/07/2023 11:03

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 10:31

@MagpiePi ah the classic argument of using the extremes of a sub group as an excuse to spew bigotry against the lot of them. I can think of lots of other times in history when this logic has been used against minorities. You are no different.

Yes, language can't be policed. So anyone can use whatever pronouns they like to describe someone else. But it is polite to take into account offence.

Please can you all stop using the risk to women's rights as a smoke screen for your bigotry!

Who TF cares that a trans person calls breastfeeding body feeding??? What matters is that the NHS doesn't do it.

Who TF cares that some trans women dress in shirt dresses and wear too much makeup? What matters is that men aren't placed in women's prisons.

Check your bigotry people!

Yeah.

If you can keep your head when all about you appear to be losing theirs?

You have not fully understood the situation.

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 11:26

LMNT · 08/07/2023 10:57

@forkshoo your refusal to actually read what we are trying to explain just highlights how closed minded you are.

I have zero issue with trans people. Most people on FWR will say the same. We are not bigots, we are standing up for women and girls., especially the ones who cannot see how fundamentally misogynistic and homophobic gender identity ideology is. We can talk about women’s rights without being bigoted.

Then what the hell is your problem with a trans women using different language to you?!?

'Yuk, someone thinks differently to me, let's post about how terrible it is on mumsnet'

forkshoo · 08/07/2023 11:27

@Froodwithatowel. I disagree. I get the argument. But I have a massive problem with people using real issues as a smoke screen for pearl clutching bigotry.