Male and Gender Critical

[Letmespeak82]

Anyone else find being associated with some of the male Gender Critical activists a bit…well embarrassing? I’m not even going to deal with the dumpster fire that is Glinner (though it seems many on this board love him). But now we have James Esses who is hyper focused on what this woman is wearing. What difference does it make if she wears revealing clothes or not? Typical gross male attitude.

exactly. The “female” clothes do not make them a woman. Nor does being “scantily clad” mean you’re up for it and not asexual.

😂

I'm guessing that the OP is indeed "as GC as they come".

I mean I’m just asking you to answer a Q you ignored 3 times now for some reason. Obviously you don’t have to follow any orders but am curious as to why you just wouldn’t answer the Q…

You are totally right. It's the same as saying they deserve to be raped. But at the same time clothes do send a signal and rape is about power so looks are irrelevant.
Trouble is you are and should be allowed to send mixed messages with clothes or subvert the message so I say he's being misogynistic.

Well this is going as expected

lovey, that was my first post on this thread

I'm just enjoying watching you doing your thing

The “female” clothes do not make them a woman. Nor does being “scantily clad” mean you’re up for it and not asexual.

Female clothes don't make someone a woman, true, but it means that the person wearing them probably wants to give an impression of being a woman, for whatever reason. Maybe because they are a woman, or because they're a male identifying as one.

Bondage gear or sexy clothing doesn't mean you're up for it, but it does send out the message that you see yourself as a confident sexual being, and it conflicts with the idea that this person is not at all interested in sex.

That's pretty obvious to anyone.

Clothes carry meaning!

Surely anyone gc should agree wear whatever clothes you like, just this girl should not wonder why she's getting sexual attention when dressed in bandage gear. Although perhaps gc would say she should be able to be scantily clad in a non sexualised way such as gym clothes or short shorts and crop top without anyone assuming she's up for it.

Apologies I thought you were the user I was replying to.

Does Benoit wonder why she's getting sexual attention when she wears her choice of clothing? I think it's quite clear she expects it and in some way courts it, for the attention rather than appreciating the sexualised component of that attention. It's effective at garnering her attention for her campaigning.

“Clothes carrying meaning” is completely different to “people ascribe meaning to clothes” People ascribe meaning to all kinds of things and are often completely wrong. The movement of the stars for example. I would have thought the meaning of her clothes is that she wants to provoke people especially around the idea of what asexual people should look like. James clearly thinks her clothes means she’s sexually available.

What rights do asexual people not have?

I’m pretty sure that people can quietly choose to not have sex without being worried about conversion therapy.

Ok OP, let us think... say you are walking home alone at night would you prefer to wear the dog collar, chains, tassels and leather bikini or would you like to take a heavy overcoat? Yes it's lovely to dress as you please, just for yourself, but this is a luxury belief.

James clearly thinks her clothes means she’s sexually available.

He hasn't actually said that.

Wearing sexualised clothing is a strange way to say 'I don't like sex'. That's his point.

Should probably amend that to “not have sexual feelings towards others” rather than “not have sex”.

Isn't she an underwear model of some sort?. I thought the asexual thing was part of USP to gain more followers

I don't really get this conversation.

A woman wears sex-bondage gear while saying "I'm asexual"
A man says "if you're asexual don't wear bondage gear"
A randomer on the internet comes to Mumsnet to say GC people are in the wrong because of what some men say.
Replies on here say clothes do have meaning and also say women shouldn't be defined by their clothes, it's nuanced.

I really really don't get why GC women are being disparaged in this totally bizarre situation.

Yes women should support women.

This asexual woman wearing bondage sex gear is probably a little bit confused and deserves compassion.

I don’t know. That’s interesting. The only way to get any traction at the moment is to have an identity.
Only ever see her when she’s publicising the fight for asexual rights. Desperate to raise the age of consent. Or something.

Well I think it would be a bit nippy to wear my leather bikini at night

Except he hasn’t said that. It’s a pretty astute way to make your point really as it gets people talking and thinking about assumptions.

If you wear sexy clothes, especially if they are associated with a fetish, you are signalling that you are interested in sex, or that being seen as a sexual being is important to you. So contradicting the claim to be asexual.

And before you ask, of course that doesn't mean that anyone has the right to grab you or do anything to you to which you do not consent. You are signalling, via your clothes or pose, that you are interested in sex - but only in principle. Not necessarily now or with any particular individual. You may feel that you want to be seen as desirable while not actually ever wanting sex. That's great. But it's disingenuous to say that other people should not perceive you as sexual, or that you are just dressing how you like, or to look good, because there are many different ways to dress which are flattering and not overtly sexual.

As pps have said, clothes convey messages. Think of the statements pop stars, celebrities or royalty try to make with their choice of outfit. "I am sexy/interested in sex" is one such message that bondage gear sends so don't complain if it is received and understood that way. (And just to reiterate, you are not required to follow through.)

Would you go to a funeral in bondage gear? Or to collect an MBE? No, you would not. You would find another fantastic outfit which was more suitable.

I’m pretty sure that people can quietly choose to not have sex without being worried about conversion therapy.

But that's the thing. Asexual people do have sex. Not all of them, but some do.

Desperate to raise the age of consent. Or something.

I suspect she has not had a great life. And as a feminist, that is probably the part that is my business. Acknowledging that sexualisation of young women is harmful.

I’m not disparaging GC people. Just most GC males. Glinner, James Esses, Dennis Noel Kavanagh. I think they’re all knobs to be honest. Personally would like to see them go away and leave the fight to us.